Lord of the Flies ch.1
Since we are running out of time in class to discuss Lord Of the Flies, I stole an idea from Moritz's class where they are discussing the novel online. So in the spirit of creating great discussion amongst my two classes, I want you to discuss with one another what you think of LOF so far? What are your initial impressions? What questions do you have? Can you help to answer one another's questions? Talk to me people!
posted by annes @ 5:03 PM
38 Comments:
My only question so far is where were they flying to that they could crash on a tropical Island with a coral reef? I find it intersting that they are all so young, yet the already have some idea of how to live on there own and how to help ships find them. Also, I find it interesting that they are all young enough that they don't know how to run a fair society and they will start to want power over the other kids.
My first impresion of Lord of the Flies was that the book is odd and confusing. I had many questions as to where is this happening and how did they get there? It sounds like they are in the Pacific Ocean poosibly during WW1. I noticed that it said something about a storm and an atom bomb. What might that mean?
I think that the notion kathrynt had about it being during WW1 is very likely. If it ws during the war, the children might have been evacuated by plane. I think that if it was a war time, the children would have been taught how to survive. This theory is also supported by the fact that the children are taking action so quickly and are adapting to the island. During a war, everyone learns to survive anyway they can.
My first impression of Piggy is that he has faced lots of hardship. I mean, we know his dad has died and he lives with his aunt. That makes me wonder what happened to his mom. I wonder if she is in trouble with the law. Maybe she killed her husband. The fact that Piggy is reluctant to talk about her makes me lean towards thinking that she is in jail.
My first impression of the book is that it is really symbolic, partly because all of the books we read in English have a lot of symbolism in them, and partly because there are a lot of hints as to what will happen in the future. For example, already two leaders have emerged in the group of boys-Ralph and Jack. But Jack, for some reason just seems to show a dark side. It makes me wonder what will happen to Ralph.
I don't really have any questions so far, but one thing that I think is interesting is that the boys don't even really seem homesick. They just kind of automatically make their own little society and don't really make very much reference to their past, apart from Piggy, who is always talking about his aunt.
When I first started reading LOF, I was really confused. Anyone else get the same feeling. I also don't understand what the children are talking about with this scar thing? Help me out here becuase I am a little confused...
Hey erinl! I think the scar they refer to it the place where the cabin of the plane landed when it crashed.
It is very annoying to have your comment deleted by blogger, so I will try to rewrite this comment to a semblance of what it was before. Since I have already read this book, I have been trying to look at in a different way in this class. Frankly, I can't. I was not fond of the book then, and I am not fond of the book now. I feel that the book is a grim and depressing story of innocent boys turning into murderous, bloodthirsty savages, and I despise the idea. The book delves into the primeval instincts of mankind that create this dark, sickening web of events in the book. I would prefer not to have to think about these things. Please don't get me wrong, it's not that I don't want to hear and understand the realities of life, it's just that this is not life. This is a horror story. I will keep trying to see this book in a different way, but I wouldn't be surprised if I come out of the experience hating it as much as I did the first time.
Even though we are only in chpater one, I feel that the main characters are already hinting as to their backgrounds. Jack seems to act like he has been hurt in the past. He acts tough, but underneath the skin he is hurting. I personally think that Ralph comes from the same mold as Jack no matter how little he wants to admit it. As for Piggy I agree with MadisonM that he has lived his whole life shletered and has not reaaly been exposed to the world.
I like what Madison M.said about Piggy being a hypochondriac. I definitely picked that up as well. I also noticed that he can sometimes be very optomistic but at other times be the most pessemistic person around. He continually hopes that there still might be grown ups around, but then when Ralph is talking about his dad, he totally changes and has no hope at all that will be rescued. My biggest question right now is what time period is this. There is talk of an explosion at the airport and the plane sounds like it was pretty high tech. Is this set in the future from when it was written or the past or present?
I agree with annad about reading this book and it being a horrible book and so wretched and just everything that happens in it is just revolting. I too read this book (obviously) a couple years ago and it was not one of my favorites. But, I think that I will try and look at the book in a different way and make different connections and delve a little deeper. I read this book three years ago, so I don't remember eveything, but rereading this is bringing back all of the memories.
I agree with Phillip in wondering how the boys got to the isnland in the first place. Where were they going? Where were they coming from? What brought them all together? Why were there only boys? Why not girls? What happened to the adults? Why were there so many kids on the plane? What hit the plane? What bomb? How did the boys get to the ground without getting hurt, was it a contraption of some sort or something? What kind of war is going on for someone to use a bomb? What island are the boys on? How will people find out where the boys are? How is Ralph's dad supposed to come and rescue them all? Some many questions rushing into my head at once, it's overwhelming! Maybe with the answers, we can make connections??? Who knows!
Well, when christa s said that she thought that Jack has a "dark side", I'm not sure if I entirely agree with that. I think that Jack does have a mean personality, but I think that it's just how he was raised. Plus, we can see this from him. He's easier to read. Unlike Jack, Ralph is the one who I think has the "dark side". Ralph is so mysterious, we know nothing about him, and all of a sudden, he has taken power, knows exactly what to do, and is the leader of the island. So how come out of no where this can happen? Also, Ralph just gives me the creeps. He's so mean, and bossy, rude, obnoxious. It makes me angry. But it makes me think that he's hiding something from everyone. Not only that, I think he's selfish. I believe that the only reason that he "cares" about others is so that he can take care of himself and make sure that his dad comes to get him. I believe that the only reason for his course of actions isn't really for the good of the group.
But this leads me to another question, how can all these young boys agree with this little order? How do they let Ralph be the one to control everything? How come the whole process of choosing was so simple? I have more questions, but for now I have forgotten them...
Another person who makes me wonder is Simon. Although his part is not huge, it just makes you wonder why he's being mentioned in the book. It seems as if there's going to be a bigger part with Simon and that he's an important character and that the story with subtly develop around him. I don't know if that's just from my knowledge from the book or just me imagining things, but Simon is different from all the others.
I agree with erinl with what she said about LOF being really confusing. When I first started reading it, I was very confused by the phrases and sayings that they used. Also, I was very confused on what the 'scar' was.
I was also confused, because I felt that Golding didn't explain things well enough. I agree with kjerstinl with her questions. Such as, what island are they on? Also, I was perplexed about where the boys were going in the first place, and where they were coming from?
Overall, I like the story line of LOF, and I think that it will have a good message about survival and friendship, even though I am only at chapter 2.
I don't know if I agree that Jack has a dark side. I believe that he may have this pent up jealousy and/or something causing him to want "revenge". But again, I do think that everyone has some hidden secret about someone else, or something. I do believe that the variety of personalities on the island will cause some rivalries and enemies. But, this does make the story a lot more interesting to read.
I think that Piggy has a good heart, and that overtime the rest of the boys will begin to like him and become friends with him. I think that the boys judge him by his look and don't give him a chance.
On the issue of whether it takes place in WWI or not, I am quite sure it does not. The back of my book says "At the dawn of the next World War..." The book was written in 1954, so I think this means WWIII. Also, if it were WWI, there would not be an atom bomb.
I think all the stuff that has been said about people having a dark side is very interesting. What I think is also interesting is what are the ramifications of each person having a darkside that surfaces.
Ralph: I think if Ralph's darkside surfaces, he could be very dangerous because he is in command, and a lot of the other children have come to follow him without a lot of hesitation. Also, he did a good job of working them into a frenzy when he decided fire was needed, so we could very well have them follow him in his dark footsteps. And the incident of the beastie show that he can sometimes be mildly unstable. I think the combination of these factors, as well as all the things we do not know about him could be very dangerous.
Jack: If Jack's darkside surfaces, it could also be dangerous. After chapter one, he begins to have a little bit of conflict with Ralph over his hunting parties. I think the Jack's hesitation to slay the hog brought out many of his insecurities. People with insecurities are often dangerous because they want to prove themselves, and may go to great lengths to do so. Also, he has what seems to be a loyal following among the choir boys. I think they would follow Jack above Ralph. But I am not really sure.
Everyone has a dark side though. What matters is whose will surface, and what will happen when it does. I think the opposing personalities of Jack and Ralph may create conflict later on.
As far as piggy goes, I doubt in a story like this he will finally be accepted. I think he will be singled out for his differences and obvious insecurites. They view him as weak, and very well might use him as a scapegoat. And if that happens, I think he may even be killed in rage. He seems to be the one person most at odds with the group dynamic.
So far LOF has potential. I noramally don't like books assigned in school mainly because I like having the freedom to choose my own. However, LOF is a school assigned book...
Anyway, I think that it will be a worthwile book to read, much like The Giver by Lois Lowery. It my not be my favorite book of all time, but I believe that it will leave its mark.
The author addresses some interesting topics and he presents them in a way that I normally wouldn't think of. For instance, I think that LOF is going to be a story of life in general. For example, when Rlaph, Jack, and Simon go exploring, and they are somewhat lost, reminds me of life. Stumbling along the road of life, lost, confused, and seemingly eaten alive. Then something posotive happens in your life, and suddenly you can see, the whole world seems to brighten. Another way that this reminds me of real people, is when they vote on leaders, the chior was so used to Jack being their leader that it seemed that they couldn't imagine anyone else being their leader, or that it didn't really occur to them that they had a choice. Isn't that what some people do? Don't they just go with what they are used to, even if that know deep down that they are wrong??
By the way I totally agree with Madison M. Piggy completely opened the door to his own humilliation by telling Ralph what he didn't want to be called...
Then again, when Ralph told the group that the name was Piggy, he had been somewhat defending Piggy from the name of Fatty...
Along with Chelsea and Erin I was also very confused when i started reading this book. They use many cofusing phrases and sayings that don't make much sense. I didn't know what they meant by the scar either, but now after reading a little more i think it is the path the airplane left when it crashed onto the island. Maybe it tore and destroyed all of the trees, plants, and surrounding things.
It seems to me that LOF could be compared or related to many lives here at AHS even. There is always that one person who has the power over everyone and thinks that they know everything and that they can do anything that they want, even though he really never knows what he is talking about. On the other hand Piggy knows a lot of information that Ralph does not, but when he trys to share that info or inform the others nobody listens to him because of his apearance and Ralph doesn't want anyone to take over his power.
When Piggy told Ralph what he didn't want to be called, Piggy most definately brought it on himself to be teased. Piggy should have known that you cannot TRUST somebody within a few minutes; it takes time to build trust. So far, I think that this is my most favorite book that i have read so far in all of school. I really do like the book because I can completely picture what the island looks like in my mind. Also I think that Piggy's specs represent humiliation and embarassment since he always takes them off and plays with them when he feels that way.
I also agree about the sybolsim about the conch that mckennad said.
At first I ws very confused about what was going on, that's when I realized that there were two people, so then I had to go back and read it again. Then I started to get confused again so I had to go back and start over. I realized that it can take a few times to understand concepts in the book. So it is worth it not to wait untill the last minute and to spend some time on the book.
I started to realize a few things in this book, one of them was that it was a little like "The Cay". Also, I started to question, like why do some of the children think they are better than others? Along with Chelsea H. I was confused about what the 'scar' was, but overall the book is better than I thought and heard it was going to be.
This book is certainly unique. I have talked to a lot of people who have read the book and they either liked it or disliked it with a fiery passion. I myself did not enjoy the book; however I felt that it was an accurate portrayal of what would actually happen if a bunch of boys got stranded on an island. This book really brings out the desperate situations and actions that the boys are involved in. It highlights the savagery that one may be drawn towards when faced with such desperate situations. Good and evil are brought out in this book. Jack and the choir signify the untamed animal inside everyone that jumps out when least expected. Ralph and the others signify fortitude and steadfastness in the face of perilous and unsure times. I would say that this book is and allegory of an event that actually took place. As of the identity if that event I am not sure, but I'm sure that someone could find one.
Like I said earlier, I was really confused when I first started reading this book. I literally re-read the first ten pages five times before I understood what was going on. I'm glad that I wasn't the only one. Once I started understanding what was going on, I got into the book and was pretty excited about reading it. Honestly when I first started reading I wasn't intrested, not that I really like it now, but it's growing on me. I agree with shelbyb, it sounds almost like The Cay, which was a book that I read in 6th grade. I see alot of similarities, so I can really connect to each of the texts.
I have to say that I am suspicious of Jack and his actions, I think that he really wants to be leader and really thinks that he should be in charge instead of Ralph. He yells alot at Piggy, which is really sad becuase he is just trying to help everyone. Although, I think that Ralph is doing a pretty good job at being a leader to all these kids on the island, but I was disapointed when Ralph announced that his name was Piggy to everyone. I think that Piggy (does he have another name?) should be a co-leader or at least be helping Ralph with his decisions.
I think that the children will end up living on this island for a while. No one would know where the plane was shot down, and if this story takes place durring WWII there are alot of things going on.
Do we know how many kids are on this island? How will the story play out if there are so many kids on the island and hardly any work being done?
By the way, anyone know how the title might relate to the book?
I think that Lord of the Flies is quite an interesting book so far. I cannot imagine boys, some of whom are six years old, being stranded on an island. It is amazing that they are able to survive. I mean yes, they are humans and they know what they need to survive but these are children. I am older than all of the characters and I can't even begin to think what I would do to survive on an island. Also, I think the book is a giant metaphor in some ways. Piggy represents logic and reason because while Ralph is having a good time exploring the island, Piggy is trying to come up with plans for the future. He looks ahead and plans for what is to come rather than on "the moment". I think this is a very mature quality. Jack, on the other hand, represents opression and control because he thinks his way is the only way. On the first page it says "...a bird, a vision of red and yellow, flashed upwards with a witch-like cry..." My question is does the bird symbolize what it to come? I ask this because sometimes red symbolizes evil and in genersal, that is what the boys have to deal with. I disagree with Jessica B. I think Piggy is rarely listened to because he represents reason. A bunch of young boys stranded on an island probably do not want to hear what the right thing to do is. Often in real life, people stray from the right "path".
OK this is a test BLOGGER is being difficult tonight this is the 5th time I've tried to do this!!!!
OK now it's working...... Hopefully....
I enjoyed the opening of Lord of the Flies. It seems like a great survival story. Full of adventure and exicitment. The author has already captivated my attenion with this book and I'm definitly excited to read more.
Lord of the Flies is pretty good through chapter one, but it is also left me a little but confused. First of all, I don't see why a plane full of boys and one pilot are flying out over the ocean. Secondly, I don't see how all the boys survived the plane crash but the pilot died. The last question that I have is where the plane was headed before it crashed on the island.
From my first impressions of chapter, I think most of the kids, especially Ralph are very immature. They seem to laugh hysterically about the dumbest things, and they treat their situation more like a game than a fight for survival. If I were in a plane crash on a deserted island in the middle of nowhere, I probably wouldn't be passing around a conch telling people when they can and can't speak. I don't think they realize the big picture of the fact that they're in a bad prediciment to be in. I'm not really sure I'm a big fan of this book so far, I understand what's going on, the characters just get on my nerves. I'm also not sure Ralph is the best leader for the group, which it seems like he has become. It surprised me that some of the older boys didn't take charge, and they left their very survival in the hands of Ralph. Also, why are there no girls. Responding to kathrynt's and sarahc's comment about the atom bomb, wouldn't the atom bomb be in WWII, not WWI? I also find the descripitons of the settings difficult to visualize. I don't know if that is due to the vocab or what.
Hopefully this will be a little more concise. I think that hannas brought up a good point in the symbolism of a bird. I would also like to know if that symbolizes something or if it is just colorful imagery.
I forgot to mention this before, but i think it was originally madisonm (correct me if im wrong) who said that Piggy was sheltered, and I think that that is a good assesment.
I think tomr brought up an excellent point about the use of children. I think that is a very good guess as to Goldings choice of children. However, I disagree in the sense that the line between good and evil is very distinct. I think what characters are supposed to be, such as whiny piggy and dark jack is very defined. And I don't like shallow characters when the shallowness reveals nothing interesting underneath, or characters like Piggy which are intented to evoke sympathy.
I have really enjoyed LOF so far. I have actually liked it so much that I have been reading ahead, and just so all you people who have all those questions know, alot of answers will come shortly. I litterally havent been able to put this down. But enough of my impression on the book in all the chapters I've read, lets just talk about chapter one. When I first started reading I found myself in the same place as many of you. I thought the first little bit was very confusing, and really just started getting into the action very quickly. I agree with kari that the kids are very immature, and many of my questions are about that. I dont know why these kids took this disaster as a game. YOUR STUCK ON AN ISLAND! I think that their assumptions that they will be rescued and the way they are acting though is explained by their age. Of course we would not be doing what they are doing if we were in that situation. But over all my initial impression of LOF is very good.
I ,like many others, have a lot of questions so far. There are of course the ones that keep poping up like why are there only boys? and what island are they on? But alot of my questions, like jessica's, are what are the significance and symbolism of certain items, especially the shell. The shell is very powerful in these boys world now. It shows who is the leader, it brings them to a meeting, it shows who can speak. I think this power of the shell is going to end up in a bad way. Also, one of my main questions is who would be best to be their leader? In many ways i think Ralph is a good choice because he takes charge and the kids listen to him. However, I think Piggy is a good philosifer. He knows what they need to do and how they need to do it. But Piggy is shy and no one likes him or would even listen to him. Jack shows good leadership because he is leader of the chior boys. But in my personal opinion i think Jack is a phsyco and is going to snap. I dont know who would be the best leader, maybe a combination. Some other questions I have had are why don't the boys know eachother? Why are they all on the same plane if they don't know eachother? Why is there a variation in age? What exactly happened for them to crash. Where is the pilot? Are there people dead around the crash? Why arent they using supplies from the plane?
To answer other peoples questions I would be giving away parts to the book. And quite honestly, I have no idea the answer to some of the questions.
Here is a question I want to bring up. Do you think there is any connection between them calling Piggy "Piggy" and the fact that there are pigs on the island which they hunt? I think Jack has a crazy side and I think he is going to do something to Piggy. Im not saying he is going to kill him, but I think something is going to happen between Piggy and Jack. They obviously dont have a very good relationship with one another and I think this is a clue from the author that something is going to happen. What do you think?
A lot of people have been talking about all the unknowns, like why the boys dont know each other. I think these are very big questions, and I would love to know the answers to them. But it does not disterss me. Why? I stopped caring, and won't care until it becomes important. Right now it seems to be somewhat irrelevant, so I forgot it.
So far I have really liked LOF! I like the description and detail the author uses about the island and the surroundings of the boys. It confuses me how Piggy and some of the other boys don't talk in complete sentences and use bad grammer. Also I'm confused on what they mean by the creepers. Is that all the plants growing around or like spider webs and such? Also by the scar do they mean where they crashed. But I am also unsure of what they crashed from, where they were headed, how come they don't know each other, and how come no adults survived or if they were even with adults. Other than all the perplexing and confusing matters, I really enjoy this book!
to respond to tyc, I'm guessing that the boys were on their way to some kind of boarding school, thats why in the very beginning they keep talking about their uniforms. There is a lot of discussion as far as piggy being smart or stupid and i think that he is a smart kid, but a freeloader, he tells everyone else what to do, and it usually is the smart thing to do, but he wont help anything get done. I think he is using his asthma as a crutch, maybe his asthma isnt really as bad as he plays it up to be and he is just lazy. I do think the boys should listen to him though. I do think that Ralph is a pretty good choice for a leader because although he is kind of mean to piggy he can take charge of the group and they respect him, a group that has a leader they like is more likely to listen to him even if he is stupid and have a semblance of order, rather than a group that has a smart leader that they don't like. I'm guessing that the "creepers" are the vines and undergrowth that usually inhabit a forest. Some people were asking about the 'scar' and although i'm not sure i think they are talking about the gash mae in the forest left by the plane crashing.
now for some questions of my own... The boys talk about the pilot dropping them and some stuff like that, does that mean he dropped them off or ejected them once the plane was hit? i suppose he must have ejected them because in the very beginning they are scattered all over tryin to find the others... Is the plane on the island? if so why aren't they using it for supplies they can use to build the shelters? they said something along the lines of "they're all gone" when talking about the people at the airport, does that mean the airport got attacked or the whole country, and if its the whole country could those boys be among the last people from their homeland? and finally i was wondering what's the deal with Jack? has he gone totally insane, that he would rather kill a pig than be rescued? i think he needs to get his priorities straight...
Through chapter one of Lord of the flies there was one thing that struck me in a huge way. To read how Piggy was picked on by Ralph really made me realize how mean kids can be. This carried on through the next couple chapters were piggy was prutally bullied. He is trying to be nice and reasonable, but he isnt taken seriously and he is just made fun of. Kids are still picked on like this today. After reading chapter one i wondered how the kids were going to get food and how they were going to work together when they are all pretty different and come from different backrounds.
Chapter 1 for me, was for the most part, confusing. I reread the chapter again, and now I have a basic understanding. I agree with connord in that Piggy is already being picked on by Ralph, and its sad. However, I think it's also funny the way he treats Piggy. I think Ralph respects piggy, but very much enjoys poking fun at him. The whole plot line is a little hazy still for me, but I hope to understand more over time.
I noticed my error in speaking of the atom bomb. Yes, I did mean WWII not WWI. Sorry about any confusion.
Another question comes to mind as phillip said that they crashed on a tropical island. That is, what exactly is the weather like? We know that the island is humid and warm, but just how much so? Does it rain a lot there? What is it like at night? What sort of storm contributed to the crash? Knowing this information could help in finding out where it is that they are.
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Well when I started reading the book, I found it rather boring because nothing was going on yet. But now that I'm into he 3rd chapter and the characters have developed personalities, it's much more interesting to read.
In the post about evil, I thought of a scary thought. We know about how Jack was very easily annoyed by Piggy and so unusually so. We also know how he is so anxious to kill a pig and how that seems to represent some evil. Well, what if Piggy pushed Jack's buttons a little too far? Could Piggy become the pig Jack is hunting for?
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