Fishbowl 1984 Per. 2 Book 1:1-3
posted by annes @ 8:05 PM
Smith's 9th Honors Class Blog
Thoughts, observations, comments, and concerns regarding our readings and classroom discussions.
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30 Comments:
I finally got mine to load
Connor brings up an interesting point, I thought it was weird that the children were already being trained to catch people with thought crimes. It seems weird that in their society that children could have their own parents arrested or killed. No one can trust anyone.
The quote in the book,
"War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength"
is full of irony. Each word is the exact opposite of the other. What do you think is the significance of using the irony in this society?
It seems like family doesn't really mean anything at all in their society. They seem like they're all just acquaintances and no one really loves anyone else.
Kim - Big Brother doesn't have to be real nor does Goldstein. Anything could just be a illusion created bu the government to control the people through emotions especially fear.
I think he is a ficticious character. He just represents the larger image of their government. To me they could be saying The Government is Watching You and it would mean the same thing to me. But I dont know for sure.
I think Big Brother is a real person too. On the posters that are put up in the town, there is a face on all of them isn't there? So it would have to be a real person otherwise, why would that face be put on there? Just to intimidate everyone with the thought of there actually being a real person?
Either way, I think it's more of what he represents than anything. The citizens look to Big Brother as a leader, whether he is a puppet or actually commanding, he still represents the government as a whole.
I think that Big Brother may just be a fake person created to make the people feel secure, so they don;t have a desire to do anything against the government in order to keep themselves protected from the enemies of the Party, which they believe are the ultimate evil.
It is strange that the government is called Big Brother, because your older siblings you do tend to follow and look up to. There are no rules nor is anything illegal, but you will die if you do something that the government doesn't like. Thus, you are expected to be like a younger sibling to Big Brother, and know what he is like and you should act just like he would like you to. Also, it is strange that the Ministry of Love is so secretive. No civilian really knows what goes on there, and yet Love is usually something to be shared and known. It is as if Big Brother tries and thinks that 'he' knows best, but at the same time, he might not.
Sarah C.-Those are very interesting foreshawdowing ideas. The first one, I can definitely see happening since Winston has already commited a thought crime by writing in his diary. Most likely, it's not possible for him to hide that for very long. I can also see the second one happening as well. But why will he meet her in a park? I'm a little confused about that, maybe I missed something in the reading.
Well I dont know what #3 really means, but O'brien and Winston remind me alot of Montag and Faber. I think Winston will meet with O'brien later in the book, like Montag and Faber did, and will sort of team up to fight agaisnt the Party.
Hannah
An actor would work just fine for the pictures. Someone who is intimidating yet someone who the people could look up to as a leader, one who knows best. Once they find that person, take the pictures and kill the actor, he no longer exist and the government has their "Big brother".
Elyse, maybe "a place where there is no darkness" is meaning a time and a place where Winston, or someone, knows everything and there are no more secrets kept from him. "Light is shed on the truth" is a phrase that I think I have heard somewhere before.
Thanks Sarah!
And I definitely agree with Bryan about the connection with Winston and O'Brien and Montag and Faber. Great connection Bryan!
Yea I agree with what Kathryn is saying. Darkness could be entirely litteral and mean that it is in a place where it is not dark. But it could also have a more metaphorical meaning like Kathryn said, like in a place where there is truth and a place where they are free.
Since this book was written in 1949, and its title is 1984, it seems to be a prediction of the future. Granted, in the year 1984 this wasn't exactly what our lives were like, but Orwell may have been predicting this based on what was going on at the time and what would happen if the pattern continued.
So this Goldstein person, is he a man who is under arrest or something that they're trying to catch? Or is he only used for the Two Minute Hate purposes?
I think it is interesting that, like Bradbury in 451, Orwell predicted that the future would be dominated by TVs. In 1984, the people are controlled by TV screens that watch their every move. in 451, the people were controlled by the bright colors and superficial things in their TV walls. I think the TV was invented in 1950, but in 1949 Orwell included TVs in his book. I just thought that was interesting.
"Who ever conrols the past, controls the future"-- that can be true in that if you change what is taught about the past and if you forget what has happened and no one learns from the mistakes of the past, then those same mistakes cannot be learned from and prevented from occuring in the future. The past tends to repeat itself, so if the past is changed, then what does that mean for the future. Sorry, I just had to say this, even though it is a little behind the discussion.
Sorry, blogger wasn't working for me in class so I have to contribute now. My first question is whether or not this type of government is communism or a dictatorship?
I think Big Brother is anti-sex and has people live alone because he doesn't want love to interfere with his power. When you love someone, you are more likely to challenge the system to help them.
Why does Big Brother restrict what you wear? Would that really interfere with his power?
Regarding the slogans, "War is Peace" and so on, the two nouns in each line is opposite the other. Do the people realize that they are saying two contradicting things? Wouldn't they realize that ignorance is NOT strength?!
Clearly this book is based off of WW2 and HItler. Do you think that it will turn out the same way, Big Brother (Hitler) being defeated?
The quote about the past, present, and future is basically saying that whoever controls the present controls the past and future too. So, if the people could think, wouldn't they realize that they are living in a false reality? Since Big Brothre controls the present, he also controls the past and future, so Big Brother controls EVERYTHING!
Along with what people were saying towards the beginning of the blog, why is Big Brother refered to as a brother? Even though a brother does have influence over you, they can not control you. Could this be foreshadowing something that will happen later in the book?
With Declan and Kim, I don't think family matters either because they are backstabbing eachother. It is like having a family that you don't love. Is the lack of love what Big Brother uses to control everyone?
Likewise, my computer didn't load blogger during class.
Paige, for you first question, I think that the society in 1984 is both a dictatorship as well as communist. The government has absolute power and control over the people, and can punish them anyway they want. They can arrest them for thought crime and things like that. It is a communist place as well because they are keeping everyone at the same level so no one will have the brains to stand up and say, "this isn't the way things should be." But because the government has control over the past as well as the future, the people don't know any better. Hope that answers at least part of your question!
As for my question, why is everything labeled "victory?" Like the Victory Mansions and Victory Gin and Victory Cigarettes? Is this just another ploy by the government?
Sorry, my computer also was not working in class today, so I have a few things. Okay to respond to Paige, I think that Big Brother restrics what the citizens wear, because he doesn't want anyone to stand out of the croud and be more noticed than others. It would just be easier for Big brother if everyone looked the same. This is kind of like the Holocaust because the Nazis and HItler shaved everyones heads when they entered the camps and they dressed them all in the same uniform. Also Big Brother kind of acts as Hitler in 1984.
Shauna, about everything being labled "Victory" well I think that it is sort of a ploy by the government because these victory items actually make the consumers feel like they help when they use them, like when winston drinks the victory gin and smokes a victory cigarette. On the other hand it could just be what Winston goes for after a hard or bad day becasue they make him feel good and like he has accomplished something, "Victory."
Okay so I have a question:
Since no one has really seen Big Brother other than on poster, how do we know that it is one person and it is not just a group of people who also watch over the people along with the thoughtpolice.
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