Thoughts, observations, comments, and concerns regarding our readings and classroom discussions.
posted by annes @ 1:14 PM
I really wanted to bring this up-What's up with the Hound? WHy is it "angry" at him?
I think that Beatty put in the amino acids to make the hound angry at him. Or maybe he senses that Montag is guilty of taking a book.
I was wondering the same thing anna. I don't understand how something that is supposed to have no feelings and no point of view can hate one person, and only one person.
Then why would Beatty be mean to him? That doesn't really make sense...who else would have done it? Or did it actually get smart?
I think the hound is used for hunting down books. It might be angry because it senses that he has changed.
Just one quick question... why do you think Montag stole the book? Is he intrigued with Clarisse's comments?
If you read the part, it talks about how the firemen can put in certain amino acids and cemical to MAKE the hound feel what he wants. They decide his feelings, not the hound itself.
I think that the mechanical hound was for protecting the firehouse, my question is why does it hate montag?
What is the point of the mechanical Hound? It doesn't really appear to do anything other than kill animals for game. What is the purpose of it?
Montag might be afraid that people are losing emotions. Maybe he thinks emotions will be taken over by technology.
if you change the animal's animo acids or something it knows to not like certain people. That's why it knows to kill rats and cats. So I think somebody deffinitely changed the acids so that it won't like Montag.
What is a probiscous?
I think the hound can sence that Montag has a book. Im pretty sure Montag does have a book too, because he always thinks about the object in the vent. He also had a book fall on him when they were going to light that ladies books on fire. He tried to read it. He also said "Once upon a time" from a fairy tale book. He can read and he wants to read. I think the object Montag has is a book and the hound can sence it because he is a robot.
It might know that he is breaking some law and it wants to kill montag because it believes that he has done something wrong.
When technology gets so andvanced to make things like the hound things are bound to go wrong. anyone seen I, Robot??? thats what i'm talking about.
Chels, I think that clarisse is having a huge affect on him. He seems to be acting differently at work and around his family than he used to. So, maybe her comments and questions are getting to him and making him want to do things that are 'out of the box' for him.
chelseah-I think that what she said about reading them before burning them, and the devotion of the lady finally got to him.
I think the amino acid idea is an excuse. Either that, or Beatty suspected him of having a book and put them there on purpose to catch him.
To answer Alex's question, The Hound sniffs out the books because when Montag takes the book from the woman's house (pg. 39). The Hound growls at Montag when he touches the muzzle. I think that Montag has been stealing books ever since he started being a fireman.
I think that claireese is different than everyone else because of her upbringing. She grew up with an uncle who challenges the system all the time. We are all products of our experiences. her experiences were different
I think that Montag stole the book because he was curious, for the same reason he smelled the leaves, or tipped his head back into the rain.
So, we have found out that Montag hides books in his house. He tells Clarisse that he enjoys his work, but does he really? If he loved his work so much and was so devoted to it, he wouldn't hide books. Why does he say that he likes it, even though it is pretty clear that he doesn't?
sarahc-it is the thing that a butterfly uses to suck up nectar-it's basically a nose/mouth--
Whatever happened to Clarisse?
I agree with brian. But what would Beatty's purpose for doing it be?
I think it was Beatty that was telling him about how a fireman in another area tried to commit suicide by setting the hound to attack when it recognized his amino acids. I think someone may have been setting it up to look like Montag committed suicide.
sarah c- clarisse got hit by a car.
I think that tis is a classic example of the government having too much power in the running of things. This may happen one day in our modern world.
I found it interesting that the hound, wasn't a hound at all, it was more like an insect. Why do you think he called the insect a hound instead of an insect name?
in response to alea, i think he thought he loved his work. he, being brought up with the government's lifestyle etc. was maed to believe he was happy, but until he met claireese he didnt know what real happieness was, so when he got to know her he realized that he didnt have it.
aleea-I think that he, when he first met Clarisse, had convince himself that he liked it, then Clarisse brought him up to fresh air, and he's finally actually thinking about it.
Yeah i wonder what repercussions that will have on Montag.
Hannah, way to just ruin the book, we only needed to read to page 40 for today and that happens later. So, sarcastically, thank you for spoiling it for us. ;)
hannahjShe got hit by a car? I missed that.
When did clarisse get hit by a car? I don't think I remember that....what page does this happen on?
hannahj- I don't remember, but were they sure if Clarisse really go hit by a car?
I disagree with the goverment having to much power. the only athority mentioned in the book has been the firemen. It is more thet the people don't have enough responsibility and just do what they want.
joshb, I think that the government is already starting to have too much control. Sometimes when the people should decide a law, the government decides for us.
Another thing about Clarisse is that she might not fit in with everyone else at her school, but she has her own thing to do, and she really doesn't care that she doesn't fit in, because she realizes that she isn't one of the others who can take the classes that she feels aren't important.
Montag definitely shows emotion when his wife tells him that Clarisse got hit by a car. How can one person make another change so much in such a short period of time? Clarrisse brought out another side of Mantag by talking to him only a few times...what does it take to do this?
joshb-I think that you're right, but I think that the people let it become that way. I'm not sure we will.
i think that they called the hound a hound because they don't know any better. i think that they don't know what an insect is, so they just called it a hound. maybe they dont think a hound is the same thing that we think it is
Clarisse got hit by a car? When does it say that?
alee-Montag enjoys his job for the first few pages of the book, you can see this in the first sentence, "It was a pleasure to burn." But as Montag starts talking to Clarisse, he starts to realize that all the books he's stolen over the years might come back to haunt him. He realizes that someone took the time to write that book and in 2 seconds, the fireman are taking away all that they had worked on.
shauna and sara, Clarisse did not get hit by a car, her friends did.
clarisse getting hit by the car is farther into the book than we had to read.
I do not think that the hound has been stripped of its personality because it is man made.
If you read ahead, please don't spoil anything for the rest of us who only read to the required page. Maybe you should read the last page that we ended on if you read ahead to make sure you don't spoil anything. Please keep this in mind. THANKS!
No I think that Clarisse did too.
Oh was that in a later part of the book where she gets hit? Sorry about that, but it's on page 47.
Alee, I think Montag likes his job because he gets to be close to litterature. What other job there would allow you to be so close to books? Plus, being in this business gives him the opprotunity to take them and read them. What other job in this society would allow you to do anything with books? It doesnt seem like any job would involve books, seeing as they are illegal and all.
What makes Clarisse so powerful? Whye does she choose Montag? How come her family knows the real truth about the past? Or ARE they really crazy, and the past that we think is right is really not right? How come Montag is so overcome by Clarisse and everything she says really gets to him?
I just want to make a connection, poison is used all troughout the book, the poison infecting Montag when he takes the book, the poison kerosene, the poison in Mildred that was removed by the machine. Why is poison used so often? What does it symbolize?
AHHH don't TELL me that Clarisse got hit by a car! I agree with Sara
I think Guy liked his job because it was all he had known, he dad and grandfather were both firemen. He just thought that was the way of life.
I think the Hound is probably something that they have built especially for a certain purpose. It helps them in the work that they have to do, because a normal dog couldn't do what it does.
I knew that 10 of Clarisse friends got hit by a car. But if Clarisse did get hit by a car and it is past page 40 please don't mention it because most people have just read the required pages! Thanks!
Clarisse didn't get hit by a car!!!!!!!
How come montaq took the book from the lady's house?
Brian-Although I agree with your point, isn't that very risky? He could lose his job, be arrested, have his house set on fire, or something even worse than that. Why would he put himself in so much danger?
This books references to color and a government that controls everything seems a ton like the giver... does anybody see this as well?
kjerstinl - I tink that she had tried before, and that had given her the "insane" title. I'm not sure she specificallly picked him-he just happened to believe her.
chelsea-unfortunately she did get hit by a car, it's on page 47.
Brian, I really don't think that he has the job to be close to literature. It's been said more than once that reading books is illegal, and they are trying to get rid of the books so that people won't read. Now I wonder why is this and who it was to make people think this? Is this because technology has gotten so great? They're losing all sense of real things from technology.
i agree with brian, Montag likes his job because that's the closest he can get to books without his house being burned down.
I don't think poison really symbolizes anything. I think all the parts with poison in them are just there to enhance the book. Saying poison is a symbol for something other than poison may be over analyzing. Although, Ray Bradbury does use a lot of metaphors.
Ya, I agree with you now that you mention in briang. It does make sense that Montag's job gives him advantages to get his hands on books...but why does he just hide them at first? If he risks so much getting the books, why doesn't he just read them once he has gotten them? It doesn't make sense!
I think the ppison symbolizes the innate evil iin humans and in society. We discussed it in LOF. I think The hound is a representation of that evil
We're not to page 47 yet!!!! we're only discussing to page 40!
Wait... does Clarisse die as a result? I haven't read that far...
she did? i would have never guessed!
The point about the glory and the color of the firehouse reminded me of LOF. In the end, Ralph reflects on how the beaches once had strange glory to them, but they just became sad and ruined. Montag used to join in on the violent games, but he could no longer participate. I think he quit for a reason other than Mildred's anger. Maybe he no longer found it exciting, because it was just a sick game. --sort of like how Clarisse won't play violent games like her peers.
I think that the reason Montag is affected by Clarisse because he is different. He is not unfeeling, he questions things: What does the mechanical hound think? What would it be like..Why? I think that in a world full of dull things and dull people, he is trying to find more, and he finds it through Clarisse. She "brings him back to life."
Josh, I think that the hound hasnet been stripped of personality as well, because if we have learned anything from this unit, its that there is evolution. It is a classic example, we see it everywhere. Movies, books, etc. you cant control somthing forever. And it seems that when technology gets too advanced, it will adapt and learn and form its own personality. The mechanical dog is on a low scale, but i think it has developed a personality.
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kimmy-I think that Montag has been taking books from all the houses he's burnt ever since he started working. He probably never agreed with the new laws that were put into place by the government about books and he was still curious about them. There's a couple places in the book where before it sets the fire, he reads a sentence in a book and he tries to remember it.
When Clarisse asked if he ever read the books, he kind of seemed like she offended him somehow since it was illegal.
adamb-Is it really the evil in mankind? Or the evils of government? Order?
The blog is kind of like the society in Fahrenheit 451, we all move to fast to resond and interact with each other. Every second, someone brings up a new topic.
I agree with adam. I think the blog moves so fast that no one really takes the time to take in what other people are saying. It is a lot like Fahrenheit 451 in the sense that everything is kind of impersonal.
woah there. calm down, it's already been said a million times in here.take a chill.
I'm noticing that hands have a real symbolic meaning in F451, just like in Macbeth. Montag feels guilt through his hands when he takes another book, just as Macbeth and Lady Macbeth feel guilt as they kill more people. I also found it interesting that they burn the books at night, for this plays in with the thought that night is evil.
Dont get so uptight, its just a book.
Kjersten i think Montag acted so offended because he does have books, but he still has to act like it's wrong.
I agree with kjerstin. I think it offended him at first, but he lightened up and seriously considered it after he thought about it.
I thought it was interesting that the woman would rather die for her books, burn them herself, than have someone else burn them for her.
Is this book showing a glimpse of what life could possibly be like in the future? I think that the reason that Montag is a fireman is because he was just given the job, nott because he really likes it. Because it seems that in the society they have a certain schedule that they follow everyday.
Killing the woman seems to show more emotion loss. They wanted to save her, but once she swore to defend her books, she became an obstacle. In the minds of the firefighters, she was just bad. Along with books, she was something that needed to be removed from society.
Another thing that I saw in the with the hhound, was the sick pleasure the men got from watching the hound kill animals, it reminds me of LOF, when they were at the feast, they started their hunting dance, and they ended up killing someone. Ralph had said that he wanted to join them in the game, and they sounded like they almost enjoyed watching the murder.
Adam watch your grammar, you spelled 3 words wrong(heheheheheheheheheheh)
annaw, I think the government is a n example of the human race gone wrong and that the hound is just the representation of the government, the evil, in the book.
Kjerstinl did you notice that ever since Clarisse asked if he had asked if he read the books, he was reading the first parts of some of the books he was burning?
adam-That is a really good point. In the blog everything moves so quickly that it's hard to see what everyone has to say on the subject and really expand from it.
sarah c-I think that creativity is worth death. I would hate(no, not dislike) to live in a world without creativity.
About Shauna's comment, people who have read ahead PLEASE do not spoil it for us, make comments on the pages assigned.
But how was that a loss of emotion adrianag? I see what you are saying, but I don't understand HOW it leads to emotion loss.
Will the actions of te lady burning herself with the book lead to Montag really changing the world by realizing the false world that they live in?
yeah someone asked a question, i just answered it.and i've already read this book.
Yea adam I wish that the internet would refresh automatically
don't we all
aleea-there is no need for emotion-there is nothing to cause it.
Creativity makes the world more interesting. If everyone were the same, if everyone talked about the same things, and no one did anything different, then the world would be pointless, dull and gray. Maybe because people don't talk and don't do anything different from each other, they try to act radical and end up committing suicide.
I think that eventually montag is going to try to challenge the government with clarisse and her family....except clarisse is gone for some reason
kjerstein-Montag's thinking has been changed because of Clarisse and now the woman being burned. His thinking has been changed and I've also noticed that he seems to care more now by some of the stuff that he's said.
adam-i agree with you again. I think the hound is the symbol of evil in this book, just like the beast was the symbol of evil in LOTF.
kjerstinl-that's an interesting thought. It seems like he will overturn it in the future.
connor- Montag has technically already challenged the system, by bringing home that book. But i do agree, i think that he will continue to do it, and on a higher level.
Brian and Adriana make good points.
We haven't really heard much about the government, could it just be the people who are afraid of books and knowledge? History is life, so how come they are afraid of this? Are they afraid that people will go back to ways that people acted before? Is the technology just their all-time right answer, so whatever it says is right is right?
This is off subject, but not every single book is burned. There is a book with the rules and history of firefighters. They use this book to prove to Montag that firefighters never saved houses, so it shows that in this society people believe what they read.
Because of clarisse he cared about the women dying...if he had been as he was before he wouldnt have cared much at all. The woman dying for the books makes him want him more
I don't think there is that much emotioin loss. People fell anger, and joy, and dissapointment. Like when montag discovered his wife unconscious, he was upset. The problem with the society is that things are moving to fast and they don't care to slow down and show that much emotion.
ok people we get it. we won't make comments about stuff ahead of the assigned pages.calm down.it's gonna be ok.
I agree with chelseah and I think that Montag will eventually be caught with many books.
elyse~ that is a really good point! i wonder how they decide which books to burn...
wait, I missed when he brought the book home. What page was that on?
aleea I think that he was just making sure that firemen didn't put out fires before because Clarisse is making him rethink everything he has known.
yea he got the book from an old man right and he stores it in the ventillator. I mean that he will publicly try to challenge them and he will try to get followers
Clarisse brings Montag alive again. He was just hiding behind a mask, forgetting himself; he was just walking through life without looking around, not actually living it and paying attention. Clarisse showing up and telling him all these funny things slaps him in the face. suddenly, he starts to enjoy his life more with Clarisse around, he actually pays attention to his world.
They burn all the books i think why choose
Chelseah. In the first part of the book page 1-24 it says what books they burn on MWF maybe there are only three authors left because books are banned.
I agree with the comment just made about how the government doesn't want the people to know the truth, to think what they want. This can be supported by the firemen's manual book, which says that Benjamin Franklin was a fireman, and that books were being burned as early as 1790. Is this myth, or fact?
I am wondering the same thing about the hound... Why does it only hate Guy? And who doesn't like Guy and made the hound dislike him? Or, does the hound just have a malfunction?
Alee, about your question from earlier with what the purpose of the hound is, I am wondering the same thing! The purpose of dogs at firestations in general just baffles me! I see no point in especially the mechanical hound being at the fire station, it appears to be there for either no reason or simply entertainment.
I think that it is interesting when Montag says "Once upon a time..." ane everyone acts so shocked like they don't know what it means. Even though people couldn't read books, I wonder why people stopped telling stories? When did the human race quit all creative thought?
Elyse, I think they decide what books to burn by only burning the books that give people useful knowledge. They burn books like fairy tales which let people use their imagination, if people start really thinking instead of just following rules, it might lead to an overthrowing of the government.
In F451, Clarisse makes Guy alive again, who, if anyone, in Macbeth makes Macbeth alive? I think when Macbeth sees Banquo's ghost, it really wakes him up.
Maybe the hound is the only one that can sense the reality of Montag's emotions behind the mask he puts on. It can somehow detect that he is different. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that he stopped participating in the games that the other firemen played with the hound. Or it could just be something completely technical like the scent of books clinging to him. It's possible that the hound disliking Montag is something that will never be explained.
I was wondering how everone interpreted the quote that the old woman said when the firemen came in. I thought it seemed like it was all about challenging the system. Could "Play the man," have something to do with being different and challenging overbearing authority? Then they also talked about lighting a candle that, "shall never be put out." I thought it meant that Master Ridley and the speaker (Latimer) were making a permanent mark. Their rebelliousness was starting a metaphorical fire. Even though it was just a small candle flame, it would never totally be forgotten and could eventually grow into a forest-fire revolution.
paigen~ Yes, I do agree and also in LOF maybe the beastie wakes them up to make them realize everything. Also, since Piggy was the civilized one, that kind of kept them in shape until...Piggy was killed.
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