451 Discussion 1-24 period 2
posted by annes @ 8:49 AM
Smith's 9th Honors Class Blog
Thoughts, observations, comments, and concerns regarding our readings and classroom discussions.
Contributors
- elyseh
- Kjerstinl
- Adriana
- Karl Fisch
- HarryPotterFreak(danh)
- shaunam
- Unknown
- Connor DUCETIME
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- annes
- Alex_Manning
- Anoel
- Mphair
- jbarry
- Kim C. 2010
- Spencer Z
- Tom
- bawachmu
- Hannah J
- KendraS2009
- KariB
- maddyg
- emilya
- Shelbyb-dad
- sarahc
- LindsayS
- briang
- krump
- Alexaaaaa
- Dan
- Declan "Danger"
- tanal
- adamb
- Lisa Madsen Crellin
- endsleye
- TyC
- Shelby B.
- Unknown
- EmilyLu
- lauraf
- saram
- Aylar
- EmilyH
- Laurab
- hannahs
- alexd
- Phillip
- zachf
- michelleg
- chelseah
- lindsey c
- KathrynT
- Kaity
- Shelbyb-mom
- paigen
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- Dan Maas visit
- Macbeth Act 5
- LOF connections to Macbeth
- Act 4 questions
74 Comments:
I really want to bring up the connection to the Pedestrian!! He is her uncle!
What does that show us about her personality?
What do you mean by "he's her uncle"? who?
On page 10, it mentions that the Pedestrian is Clarece's uncle.
Annaw, do you think that that means that those stories can be related somehow?
Is the Pedestrian and this book writing by the same person? Or did Bradbury read the Pedestrain and then liked it so much he used it in his story?
Clarisse brings out the inner personality of Guy that was covered up by his position as Fireman.
Page 10. Remember the short story about the Pedestrian that we read? The girl that Montag meets(Clarisse)says that the Pedestrian is her uncle, what does that show about her?
Ok. In the story pedestrian, there is the guy who is walking outside and gets arrested. The girl, clairese? mentioned that her uncle got arrested for being a 'pedestrian.' just like in the story. So the assumption is that the the pedestrian in the story and clairesses uncle are actually the same person.
Why does the girl notice all of these things, but Montag doesn't?
Ya, I don't know if the two stories are DIRECTLY related, but they are veyr similar. I think we need to read more before we jump to conclusions like that. But we can infer.
paige I agree with you. I think that maybe Guy used to be as exploring as Clarisse but after he started being a fireman he lost his interest. And then meeting Clarisse has sparked his interest again.
Did bradbury read the pedestrian and incorporate him into fahreheit 451?
shaunam I think that they will be majorly similar. Even though the pedestrian may not be the same, it seems to me that that may be why Ms. Smith made us read it...
READ THIS! Follow along on one question at a time, dont bring up other things constantly it makes it hard to follow the blog. SETTLE DOWN
Because she grew up differently. the girl grew up challenging the system, even in the small way of being different, yet montag grew up with all the advantages of someone who lives within the system, but also the disadvantege of being blind to the small things of the world
WOW! good point Chelsea H and Josh B! I didn't know that salamanders could live in fire or that a phoenix symbolized it so well!
Because he is distracted by his job and the world and no one looks anymore around the world, that's why she is so diffrent
Back to sarah c's question- I don't think that the thing in the vent is like Big Brother in 1984. I think that maybe there is something forbidden that he has hidden in the vent.
i think the thing he saw in the vent is a book. because i think the firemen can't read a book and he is guilty because he is hiding one.
I agree, emilyh!!
Going along with what they are talking about in the middle, why do they view firemen like that in this society? Firemen in our world are heroes and we respect them, and occassianlly they come out with a pretty decent calander. But, why would the author show people acting like this towards firemen? They seem almost afraid of them, and they make steriotypes.
sarah c--sotrue! I also noticed that he didn't believe that firemen used to put out fires
I'm not sure if he knows what is behind the vent. He may have forgotten and clarrise said something that mde him remeber that something was there.
The Pedestrian and 451 are similar in storyline, I think that's why Smith wanted us to read it. I'm not so sure that there is any real relationship other than the Challenging the System motif. My question is: how come Guy got the number 451 out of all the other numbers? is it just coincidence?
i agree with emily. he kind of acted as if he were doing something wrong or that he felt bad and guilty that he was hiding a book even though he is burning down peoples houses for having books
to jess b. you asked how could society grow to be this cruel, but we are already on our way to being that cruel. It starts with a small crime, then some more small crimes and people begin to get indifferent about them, they stop being amazing, then bigger crimes, and slowly society becomes numb to the cruel things of this world because they are simply... COMMONPLACE.
Hopefully though our society wont get to this extreeme.
briang-I'm beginning to wonder if, even when times are so completely different from our own, if there will always be stereotypes- and tere will always be those who "challenge the system"
Yeah, I agree with what endsley was just saying that like in Harrison Bergeron, everyone in the society in Fahrenheit 451 just forgets everything they don't want to think about and puts on a false face. They forget everything unpleasant.
i think in response to sarah c, that nothing HAPPENED, but society is so corrupt, and technology is so advanced, that people can overdose easily, have their blood replaced and be fine the next morning. people dont think about the consequenses
To sarah, the people are probably so bored in there society that they would rather commit siucide rather than live in this pointless existence.
sara and jess you guys make a good point. Eveyone who seems normal to us now are seen diferently to people in the book. also everyone has changed so much from now to the future.
PAIGE IS SMART. I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT. GOOD CONNECTION
I agree with you,Adriana because when Clarisse rubs the dandelion on his chin and says he is not in love, he insists that he is, although he cannot match a face with his words. He knows that he should love his wife, but he does not.
i agree with sarah C. yes, his curiosity will turn his world upside down.
here's a Q: what effect will clairesse have on montag and his job... is he even allowed to quit?
going with the middle i think that they are both looking but they aren't really seeing and aren't taking the time to notice what is going on and what they are doing.
What is so different about this society?
Why does Clarisse seem so different than all of the other people so far in this story?
Why are all of these futuristic books (Fahrenheit 451, the Giver etc) have such warped societies? Why did all of that emotion go away? Why are they all like robots and don't even know about themselves.
I think that his relationship with his wife may be faltering. His encounter with the new neighbor Clarisse may have brought him back to the present, a sort of wake up slap of sorts. She seems like she may be a huge turning point in the novel, and also may die a tragic, ironic death. That would be cool...
So far they haven't mentioned anything about the goverment, the only thing we have heard is that books are illegal.
Saram, Im not so sure that people during this time liked books. Maybe except for Clarisse. Guy has a set schedule. Monday burn Millay, Wednesday burn Whiteman, and Friday burn Faulkner. I think that maybe people didn't read that much so these are the only 3 authors left. And their books are not selling so they are being burned now.
Paigen~I think that they don't want people to commit suicide because they want an ideal society.
Christa-
I agree with you that when Clarisse rubs the dandilion on his chin and nothing shows up, he says he is in love, and he wants to think that. But he is no so sure if he is in love or not. Clarisse is making him rethink the way things are and now he is full of doubt and isn't so sure of himself.
i agree with endsley. maybe nobody read books anymore or they didn't enjoy them as much as people do now. i think everyone has stopped reading then and that is one of the reasons that the books are being burned. i think that they don't want the people to read books and obtain the info and change from reading a books so they are burned
endsleye~ I agree with you and also, in the Pedestrian when the cop pulled over the pedestrian, he asked the profession, and the ped. said writer, why did the cop reply :"No profession?"
wow. the transition between discussions is weird....
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writers are outdated. books are outdated. what effect does that have on society
elyseh~
I think that maybe Mildred did remember overdosing, but she forced herself to forget. Like in the society in Harrison Bergeron, the people just forget the bad things and the things they don't want to think about. I don't think Montag was trying to make his wife forget what she did, but he didn't feel that trying to convince her that she actually DID overdose was worthwhile. She would just resist and insist that she did not try to commit suicide.
Kjerstin just had a good point in the real discussion. Why did clairese pick montag?
ood point shauna, i think that both of these books are set in the same time period. i think that the books are all being burned so really a writter isn't considered a proffesion anymore. also if the books are banned then maybe having the proffesion of writting is banned also.
In the conversation, they are asking if clairrese had talked to other. She said that she has talked to other firemen and none f them ever looked at what they said.
emilyh I think that many people have a creative outlet, most of the time being writing. I think that this will make society crazy and make people not able to think for themselves.
christa, i disagree. I doubt she remembered overdosing, why would she make herself forget? i think she honestly didnt remember, i just want to know why guy didnt press the issue.
i agree with you shauna
The pedestrian is in fact by ray bradbury
i think that clarisse brings out the real montag and he can actually talk to her. also she gives him more views on life and another way to look at things
To kim, it is and isn't a perfect society. Everything is taking care of so people have nothing to do. So taking away almost all work backfired causing people to be so bored to commit suicide.
paige~ you should come into the middle, you have a lot of really good ideas and points!!
maybe what is different about montag is that he has something hidden, a book i think, in the radiator thing. that makes him different, it gives him a jolt back to real life, and this girl seems like someone who will keep him there, and he is intrigue
i'm kind of contradicting myself here, but maybe Mildred didn't remember overdosing because it is a common occurrence. Maybe she has tried to take her own life so many times that it has just blurred together.
I remembber Guy saying that her eyes were what drew him to her. What does that say about her?
Dangit, I wish there were more open chairs!
i think that montag is slightly out of touch with the controlled world in which he lives, which would explain why he wasn't in love with his wife, why he will listen to clarise, and why he is so different from the other firemen.
i do think that people would commit suicide especially in that time because nothing is ever going on and in fehrenheit 451 everything is so bland and controlling so i think people would commit suicide to get away from evverything and that they were bored with what was going on or what wan't going on
kimmy c~
what did you mean with your question about why an author of books would marry a person who burned books? Montag is the only one in the book that we know is a fireman, and Mildred is not an author. Were you talking about Mildred and Montag?
this conversation moves so fast. i can hardly keep up. lets slow it down a bit.
yeah, why is everyone saying that mildred is an author? havnt we also met the other firemen?
saram, I agree. If the firemen used to be authors, then wouldnt that make the pedestrian a firman as well? That would make sense because there seems to be many coonections between the pedestrian and F451. But if they used to be authors, then why does Montag like the fire. He said the fire brougt him pleasure. Why would he like to watch his "former life" burn away.
Good point elyse..
I wonder how the world got this way? There was mentions of something bad happening...what could've caused so many people to forget their past?
Pills do take our troubles out of life. And it seems to me that the overdose on the pills was an attempt at suicide. So what is it that is bothering Montag's wife so much that she would almost be willing to commit sucicde?
Along with paigen and tanal's ideas about suicide being like challenging the system, Mildred, like Macbeth, is an example of someone who tried to challenge the system but failed.
I really wonder about Clarisse. What makes her so different than everyone else? How come only her family really knows the truth about the past? How come she has such an impact of Montag? Where did her family leave? How come if everyone is one way, that it didn't affect her family?
I really don't think that it's the people who are changing the world, I think it is more of the technology. Like tana is saying, it's making people rely on techology. Then, when people lose emotion, they get afraid. Maybe that's why teenagers have killed others in the book, because when they realize they some sort of emotion, they get scared and really have no idea how to cope with it.
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