Wednesday, October 11, 2006

Fahrenheit 451 Live Blogging 25-40 period 5

98 Comments:

Blogger danh said...

Let's get this party started!

Fri Oct 13, 12:48:00 PM  
Blogger sarahc said...

do you always do that daniel?

Fri Oct 13, 12:48:00 PM  
Blogger Lane C. said...

wheeeee

Fri Oct 13, 12:49:00 PM  
Blogger Lane C. said...

yes yes he does.

Fri Oct 13, 12:49:00 PM  
Blogger danh said...

By the way, my picture is a scene from F451 where the firefighters are shooting their kerosene tanks and the resulting flame is in the shape of a salamander.

Fri Oct 13, 12:49:00 PM  
Blogger sarahc said...

awesome!

Fri Oct 13, 12:49:00 PM  
Blogger maria k said...

ready freddy??? here. we. go!!!

Fri Oct 13, 12:50:00 PM  
Blogger sarahc said...

ok then! What's with the mechanical hound?

Fri Oct 13, 12:51:00 PM  
Blogger TyC said...

what is the meaning of the Salamander ing this book?

Fri Oct 13, 12:51:00 PM  
Blogger Aylar said...

Hey sweetness the salemander!!! OR IS IT??

Fri Oct 13, 12:51:00 PM  
Blogger maria k said...

sarah-hes the guy that kills mice and I guess cats too :( He keeps the fire house critter free

Fri Oct 13, 12:51:00 PM  
Blogger danh said...

The mechanical hound... I think the point of it is to bring out and present the fears of Montag. Since he has something hiddent behind the ventillator grille, it shows that he fears it being found out.

Fri Oct 13, 12:52:00 PM  
Blogger sarahc said...

I first thought that the salamander ment the people who were hiding books. But we said something else in class.

Fri Oct 13, 12:52:00 PM  
Blogger sarahc said...

I thought that was just a game the firemen played!

Fri Oct 13, 12:53:00 PM  
Blogger maria k said...

Something I didnt really get was when the women said the books were her neighbor's, but then she stayed in there-but wasnt it her neighbor's house???

Fri Oct 13, 12:53:00 PM  
Blogger sarahc said...

No, the women said that her neighbor had ratted her out.

Fri Oct 13, 12:54:00 PM  
Blogger kenna_d said...

Nice Ben, the woman had nothing left to live for, and she is trying to make a point that books are important to people still.

Fri Oct 13, 12:54:00 PM  
Blogger danh said...

Maybe she believed that people should be able to have books and she saw that Montag was being swayed, so she stayed to die for her beliefs and to show Montag that books aren't for burning.

Fri Oct 13, 12:54:00 PM  
Blogger maria k said...

I wonder about the salammander. Isn't a salamander someone who lives in water? So then the most deadly thing to it would be fire...what could the author mean to represent with this?

Fri Oct 13, 12:55:00 PM  
Blogger Rileys said...

So she died just to stay in a swayed person's head? what daniel?

Fri Oct 13, 12:55:00 PM  
Blogger danh said...

It could be foreshadowing that later on, the "empire" of the salamander will fall.

Fri Oct 13, 12:56:00 PM  
Blogger erinl said...

I don't understand how the mechanical dog could attack Montag if it's mecanical. I didn't think it would have any feelings.

Fri Oct 13, 12:56:00 PM  
Blogger sarahc said...

I thought newts lived in water. Don't salamanders live in the desert too?

Fri Oct 13, 12:56:00 PM  
Blogger maria k said...

wow, so then there were TWO people there that were against the system...then what happened to her neighbor?

Fri Oct 13, 12:56:00 PM  
Blogger sarahc said...

Riley, I think she really wants to make a statement to the world. Remember, all her neighbors ran out as the fire lit.

Fri Oct 13, 12:57:00 PM  
Blogger danh said...

No... i meant that she couldve seen potential in Montag that he could help the cause to stop book burning and she believed in it so much that she died to even have a chance at stopping the one-track mind government that believes that books are evil.

Fri Oct 13, 12:57:00 PM  
Blogger sarahc said...

I don't think her neighbor is against the system. I think her neighbor gave the police a tip-off.

Fri Oct 13, 12:57:00 PM  
Blogger hannahs said...

Why did the woman seem so calm the entire time the firefighters are in her home? Why does she act so calm when she refuses to leave the house? In what way did she challenge the system besides having a closet full of books?

Fri Oct 13, 12:58:00 PM  
Blogger maria k said...

oooooo empire of the salamander!!! wow how does that relate?

Fri Oct 13, 12:58:00 PM  
Blogger Mphair said...

I'm oing off of the idea that is mentioned in class...I believe that books become a part of you. I know my books have become apart of me, such as I know that no one really cares about my fiction books, and there is nothing paticularly remotely important to others, however some of my books have helped me to get through hard times, they don't mean anything to Joe down the road, however, they mean a lot to me.

Fri Oct 13, 12:58:00 PM  
Blogger Lane C. said...

Erin the hound can be set to certain people based on some sort of biology. It can't have feelings so obviously something is going on.

Fri Oct 13, 12:58:00 PM  
Blogger Lane C. said...

But why did the neighbors run out? because they were scared or to watch the show?

Fri Oct 13, 12:59:00 PM  
Blogger danh said...

Well, in Macbeth, he sort of felt like he was in control of an empire, and his empire fell, and so maybe that will happen in this book. The government will get too overconfident and the Empire of the Salamander will fall.

Fri Oct 13, 12:59:00 PM  
Blogger maria k said...

sarah-nice idea, but then why would she give them HER address??? but ya that could answer the question of how the police know about illegal books

Fri Oct 13, 12:59:00 PM  
Blogger Maddyg said...

I see a connection between LOF and this. The almost savage way the firemen were acting as they stormed the house to burn down the books is like the obsessively savage way that Jack's tribe hunted the pigs and went to Ralph's camp to steal fire. I didin't even realize it, but both groups also had their craziness deal with FIRE.

Fri Oct 13, 12:59:00 PM  
Blogger Mphair said...

lanec=

I'm going off of what you said about the hound. I believe that maybe dna is injected in the hound...

Fri Oct 13, 12:59:00 PM  
Blogger sarahc said...

I think the woman thought that dying for something she believed in was better than giving in. And silence is often more accusing than shouting. Think of Dumblebore in Harry Potter and the effect his quiet voice has.

Fri Oct 13, 12:59:00 PM  
Blogger maria k said...

hmmm...cool ive never thought of a salamander that way

Fri Oct 13, 01:00:00 PM  
Blogger Lane C. said...

Nice point Maddy I see that too.

Fri Oct 13, 01:00:00 PM  
Blogger erinl said...

I agree with Kerri and that Montag doesn't like change. But, I don't understand why. Why is is that people are not adaptable to change?

Fri Oct 13, 01:00:00 PM  
Blogger Lane C. said...

Has anyone else noticed that they use fire as a symbol for cleansing? It's so opposite of the water that is cleansing in Macbeth. Why is that?

Fri Oct 13, 01:01:00 PM  
Blogger sarahc said...

I think the police can track down the address of someone over the phone.

Fri Oct 13, 01:01:00 PM  
Blogger Rileys said...

Sarah

so how would she be creating a statement to the world by staying and saying that she will ignite herself on fire, when no one is there to hear it?

Fri Oct 13, 01:01:00 PM  
Blogger tomr said...

Sarah, that's a great point. I think with silence you can emphasize something more, because it seems so out of the ordinary.

Fri Oct 13, 01:01:00 PM  
Blogger danh said...

Mphair... I may be wrong, but i think it said in the book that the feeling of the mechanical hound are programmed into it. So maybe its feelings toward Montag have been programmed by someone who sees Montag has had a slight change on mind and wants to stop him. So in a sense, it does have feelings, but theyre just not its own.

Fri Oct 13, 01:01:00 PM  
Blogger Shelby B. said...

I think she symbolizes hope for him. Maybe that way she is having him slow down and look at life.

Fri Oct 13, 01:01:00 PM  
Blogger sarahc said...

All her neighbors ran out of their houses to see, remembr?

Fri Oct 13, 01:02:00 PM  
Blogger Maddyg said...

Hannah- I think that the woman symbolizes the people who hid Jews in the Holocaust. They tried to be strong and calm so that the police wouldn't think something was up.

Fri Oct 13, 01:02:00 PM  
Blogger maria k said...

ooooo nice sarah,yeah if its the future...but then why were the books in her house? and also, i totally agree with you that actions speak louder than words and by dying, she is saying ALOT, look how it affected Montag

Fri Oct 13, 01:03:00 PM  
Blogger Aylar said...

What is the differnce between voilence in the book and voilence in our ownn world

Fri Oct 13, 01:04:00 PM  
Blogger Rileys said...

i thought you meant ran out of her house, i was very confused. Sorry Sarah miss-interpretation

Fri Oct 13, 01:04:00 PM  
Blogger maria k said...

riley- Montag heard it! I think that he is starting to see how things can be different. I also think that Clarisse has a huge impact on his sudden desire to grab a book. I wonder if Clarisse were in the woman's situation if she would choose to die too...

Fri Oct 13, 01:05:00 PM  
Blogger danh said...

Mmm... I would say no difference. People kill people. Its not a new thing, and theres no difference between how it happens in books and how it happens in real ilfe. Although maybe the people in the book are more avid and kill for different reasons. At least theres no difference between violence in killing.

Fri Oct 13, 01:05:00 PM  
Blogger sarahc said...

That's fine riley.

I think that in the book, they don't have much restriction when it comes to small acts of violence, but when it comes to larger forms of vioilence, the firemen save it for the books.

Fri Oct 13, 01:05:00 PM  
Blogger Aylar said...

Why is youth making the differnce just becaue someone is young doesn't make them inoccent

Fri Oct 13, 01:06:00 PM  
Blogger maria k said...

shelby- nice! in a way, she is like smoke was in LOF, smoke seemed to symbolize hope there too. Now thats what you call ironic

Fri Oct 13, 01:06:00 PM  
Blogger Shelby B. said...

I think violence in books is different because books represt what happens, and the world is what actually happens.

Fri Oct 13, 01:07:00 PM  
Blogger Rileys said...

Maria-
which is the basis for the rest of the book, but when she says something only to Montag, that isn't saying something to the whole world. It may be sticking it to the man, which is the accepted view of everyone in the world, but it isn't directly a statement to the world, only to Montag.

Fri Oct 13, 01:07:00 PM  
Blogger Aylar said...

Why is this wqorld so lacking in emotion? Is it because of the lack of books

Fri Oct 13, 01:07:00 PM  
Blogger sarahc said...

I think that Clarisse isn't really young, she's more of an experienced younger person. Oftentimes, different people see different parts of the world than people who are normal do.

Fri Oct 13, 01:07:00 PM  
Blogger Lane C. said...

Wow some good points going on here. I really like what maria said about smoke and hope and Clarisse.

Fri Oct 13, 01:07:00 PM  
Blogger Shelby B. said...

Youth I think all together stands for Apperance vs. Reality.

Fri Oct 13, 01:08:00 PM  
Blogger kenna_d said...

Though, violence in books is still vilolence, you have to admit that the whole lighting of the match, and the burning of the woman did not have an effect on you.

Fri Oct 13, 01:08:00 PM  
Blogger tomr said...

Ayla--While that may be true, I think historically they are considered representative of innocence. Look at Lord of the Flies--Golding distilled humanity to its essence through children.

Fri Oct 13, 01:08:00 PM  
Blogger Laurab said...

That is a great analogy, Sarah! One you think about Dumbledore, and his power over everyone he talks too, the woman is a lot alike him.

About the violence and how it is so evident in the culture in the book. The people don't have books or anything that occupies their time, so they pass time doing violent things, like smashing cars. I think that today, we have books and amgazines that we can read, that give us ideas and opinions to cultivate and think about.

Fri Oct 13, 01:08:00 PM  
Blogger sarahc said...

ayla, I think the lack of books has helped the government brainwash the community.

Fri Oct 13, 01:09:00 PM  
Blogger maria k said...

Clarisse said that sometimes she feels ancient. Maybe that ties back to being "young and innocent," maybe she no longer feels innocent because she sees what is happening in her society

Fri Oct 13, 01:09:00 PM  
Blogger Maddyg said...

Back on the class discussion about violence in the media... look at how we react to it. How many times have you heard the word rape used in a joke. It is something so serious and devastating and yet we think its just a joke.

p.s. don't say that anymore.its really annoying and rude

Fri Oct 13, 01:09:00 PM  
Blogger Aylar said...

No death is a statistic, they effect everyone. The old women was someones daughter, wife mother, you know?

Fri Oct 13, 01:09:00 PM  
Blogger erinl said...

I agree with Shelby in that the world happens. We really don't live in a perfect world, and there is violence everyday. I don't think that we would ever live in a world were there is no viloence.

Fri Oct 13, 01:10:00 PM  
Blogger Shelby B. said...

Ayla, Do you think that youth should stand for innocence? If not why?

Fri Oct 13, 01:10:00 PM  
Blogger kenna_d said...

I agree Erin, it becomes more and more relevant every day.

Fri Oct 13, 01:10:00 PM  
Blogger Rileys said...

Can everyone copy a portion of someone else's comment when they refer to it, instead of just saying that person's name?!? For it really becomes a problem when someone says great comment maria or sarah, 'cause than i have to search the whole blog for that comment and even than i'm not sure if that is the right comment. Thanks!!?!

Fri Oct 13, 01:10:00 PM  
Blogger danh said...

I noticed that throughout the whole book, Bradbury uses a lot of passages that have repetition. They repeat consecutive numbers and phrases and past events and other things that have significance in the book. I wonder why he does that? Does is relate to how fast things are happening in Montags life? I also noticed that after these passages, there seems to be some sort of epiphany, confusion, or conflict inside Montag. Is there something seriously wrong in Montags heart that Bradbury uses this style of writing so much?

Fri Oct 13, 01:10:00 PM  
Blogger TyC said...

I don't remember if this is from 451 or from something else, but i heard a quote the said, "1 death is a tragedy, 100 is a statistic. That really comes back to what Ben said about Iraq.

Fri Oct 13, 01:11:00 PM  
Blogger Aylar said...

Shelby
I thnk youth can be inocent but thaT DOESN'T MEAN WE ALL ARE

Fri Oct 13, 01:12:00 PM  
Blogger maria k said...

laura- WOW. In 7th grade we studied Utopia and we learned that the creaters of Utopia are looking for a society without any violence. We also noticed that it usually does the opposite- theres more violence and jealousy in Utopia than a regular society. I think this is because sooner or later, somebody realizes they need to challenge the system.

Fri Oct 13, 01:12:00 PM  
Blogger kenna_d said...

On what Hannah said, should we conform to what we are told to be, should we let pressure from others, such as our peers effect us? It is kind of like Clarisse thinking on her own for herself.

Fri Oct 13, 01:12:00 PM  
Blogger sarahc said...

I think now-a-days, youth are becoming less and less innocent.

Fri Oct 13, 01:12:00 PM  
Blogger Rileys said...

what was the actual purpose of the mechanical hound? I missed that in the book, can someone answer this for me? i only understood that the hound kills small animals when they are to large in abundance.
Please confirm.

Fri Oct 13, 01:13:00 PM  
Blogger TyC said...

Does anyone think that Montag would have stolen the books if he hadn't met Clarice? Maybe he is getting the books for her.

Fri Oct 13, 01:14:00 PM  
Blogger Aylar said...

Micheles comment:
I think the oppisite, I think we want attetion and will do whatever we can to get it

Fri Oct 13, 01:14:00 PM  
Blogger sarahc said...

I wondered what the importance of the Mechanical hound was. they don't seem to take it when they go to houses to burn books.

Fri Oct 13, 01:14:00 PM  
Blogger danh said...

Riley - like i said earlier, i think that the mechanical hound is there to show Montags fears. When he sees it, it said something about being caught because something was hidden behind his ventillator grille. In this instance, his greatest fear is whatever is hidden behind the grille being found out.

Fri Oct 13, 01:15:00 PM  
Blogger sarahc said...

but why was the hound created?

Fri Oct 13, 01:15:00 PM  
Blogger kenna_d said...

Ty, I think that Montag would have still kept the book, i think that the reason why he did in the first place was because of the woman's passion.

Fri Oct 13, 01:15:00 PM  
Blogger Shelby B. said...

Tyc
Does anyone think that Montag would have stolen the books if he hadn't met Clarice? Maybe he is getting the books for her.

I don't think Montag would have taken the book without Clarice's help, but I think that it is for him because he is realizing that books could be interesting to read.

Fri Oct 13, 01:16:00 PM  
Blogger Laurab said...

About confromity, that goes back to Mildred, who doesn't want to talk about anything, or do anything that might be different than what the rules say. When Montag says anything or brings up a point where Mildred has to actually (gasp*shock*!) think, she doen't want to think about it. She wants to be like the rest of society, who are brainwashed and don't think for themselves.

Fri Oct 13, 01:16:00 PM  
Blogger Aylar said...

Why does Bradbury use a public figure such as a firemen to show destruction?
I he uses this as if to say fireman don't heal they destroy.

Fri Oct 13, 01:16:00 PM  
Blogger hannahs said...

A neighbor of the woman with the books told the firemen about the books. This novel was written after WWII and during the war, Jewish people were betrayed by neighbors, friends and stranger. Did the author relate that part of the book to the actions of people in WWII?

Fri Oct 13, 01:16:00 PM  
Blogger TyC said...

I think that the hound represents guilt. That doesn't mean it can acatually sense guilt, but Montag is feeling it in himself and he sees it in the form of the hound.

Fri Oct 13, 01:16:00 PM  
Blogger maria k said...

ty- ya i think so too. she is definitely having a huge impact on him. But I'm not sure he's strong enough to be doing this, he felt the guilt as soon as he touched the book. But maybe this is sorta like killing people and it will get easier as he does it more.

Fri Oct 13, 01:16:00 PM  
Blogger danh said...

Well in the book it says that they have it to catch rats and stuff and that they play games with it. E.G. let rats out and see which one it catches first.

Fri Oct 13, 01:16:00 PM  
Blogger sarahc said...

I think that the old man in the park has something to do with montag's taking the book.

Fri Oct 13, 01:16:00 PM  
Blogger Rileys said...

Yeah, it does just sit back at the station and kill small creatures, i don't understand it's actual purpose. It may symbolize in the book that destruction has become an important part of society because they have learned to come close to cheating death because of their advancements that the world is overpopulated, they need tools to effectively destroy. This seems true for they need firemen to destroy outdated books that the government doesnt agree with, and the mechanical hound that can't breed and create more of itself to kill off animals that can.

Fri Oct 13, 01:17:00 PM  
Blogger EmilyL said...

I missed the dicussion because of a doctor's appointment, but I wanted to comment on the mechanical dog. I personally think that dog represents the fear the humans will lose everyhting old fashioned such as books and reading and become completely dependant on technology. Montag to me seems scared of the future. He knows what school taught him but he doesn't think that is engough. He seems to like things of the past. I also thinks that Clariise amplfies his fear of the mechanical dog becasue she brings to light the question of why.

Fri Oct 13, 05:32:00 PM  
Blogger danh said...

Mmm... thats a good point! I never thought to think of it that way. Maybe he has hidden behind his ventillator grille a book because if everyhting else old fashined is burned, at least he still has that one remnant of the way things used to be. Great observation!

Fri Oct 13, 07:03:00 PM  
Blogger Mphair said...

I, too really like your point, Emilyl. It gives one food for thought...

Sun Oct 15, 05:55:00 PM  

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