Thoughts, observations, comments, and concerns regarding our readings and classroom discussions.
posted by annes @ 7:28 AM
first comment lol yeaaaa haha omg yeaa lets get it started lol lol
I have a question. How do you think going to Japan made Woody appreciate his heritage and the Japanese culture? Why did seeing his father's family make him happier to be Japanese?
I think Woody was able to appreciate being Japanese more because he was proud of how well his family took care of him. And because he knew his daddy wasn't lying about how nice their houses were and everything.
I think it made him happy to know that his dad was not lieing
I think he was happy to see that what he has heard is true and that their culture and family is real.
I also wonder why he visited his family. He is worried about he would be recived.
I think seeing his father's family made him happier to see where his father is from and experience the culture. Also, he knows how terrible the war was on them and so it was an awkward situation in general.
Christa:I think that when he went to Japan, he saw how even though they were bombed and they were in a war too, they still lived with pride. Also, with the sugar, they didn't have the most simple necessity, sugar, and they didn't at all complain. It shows how much his country sacrifices for their country.
Yes I agree. I think that Woody has more assurance of his security.
Woody learned to appreciate his father alot more in part because he learned that when his father was talking about his house and things in Japan he wasn't lying about it.
Alex d-I always think that people wonder where they are from and are curious about their family's past and life story.
I think that seeing his heritage and learning more about himself and his family made him feel better about being Japanese.
I thought that he was happy just that his father's family did not discriminate against him because of his American attitude and looks and that they accepted him as one of their own. I think that he felt proud to be Japanese and part of a family group where there was not prejudice.
Jeanee won't go anywere because she is conftable with manzanar. It is hard to come back. They now feel safer in manzanar.
I don't think that Woody has alot of respect and appreciation of his father, I think he just understands the Japanese culture better.
I think he respects the culture a lot more now that he saw their culture and saw how wise his great-aunt was.
One thing that I thought about was that Manazanar was kind of like a snowglobe. Everything inside stays the same, and is not changed by the outside, but when the camp was closed the snowglobe was shattered and the people are once again being affected by the outside forces.
I agree with Jess. I think he was curious to see the place that built and molded his father into what he is today. It's interesting to see where your parents were when they were kids.
i agree with christa, but i also think that they might be kind of faking it. like maybe the whole "appearance v. reality" thing, and they are just trying to be nice. even if they dont truly accept him.
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What does it say about the United States to place these people in camps and then to let them live through terrible times and then set them free with no where to go and no way to support themselves. What does that show about humans? *hint* semeseter project *hint*
She was there only a few years, but she would have trouble going back to their job. They were glad that the toliet flushed.
Christa-I think that Woody appricated it more because he finally closed the door on the doubt that his father was making up his childhood. He finally learned that it was true.
Okay, I have a new question. Towards the end of our reading it said that nothing had changed when they moved back. How could this be? Wouldn't there still be discrimination?
I agree with that Kimmy. Since the camp became their home, and it was shut down, they have absolutly no where to go.
I think that seeing his family, and them telling him how much he looks like his father makes him happy because he admires his father. He wants to be like him, but maybe has never received that kind of appreciation or compliment from someone. Plus, he is happy because he was never really sure if his father's stories were true. Now that he has vivsible proof, it has put his mind at rest.
I agree with what some said i think it raised his confidence knowing that his family accepted him for who he was and didn't discriminate against him. It was reassurance for him.
In the inner circle: they are talking about how they wanted to be in the camp after they had lived there a long time.I think it doesn't matter where or how you live that gives you comfort. I think that what matters is what you are used to. People don't like change, so it was always hard whenever they moved after they had gotten used to life the way it was.
jess-it says that as humans beings that we will do whatever it takes to make us "safe" so in this case we put the Japenese in internment. Also we dont like to have anything negative against us. So we wanted to be on good terms with the Japenese when they left.
~~chelsea~~I don't think that the family is doing that type of appearance v. reality. The aunt was truely happy to see Woody, and she didn't care that he had the american look, because she could see his father in his face.
chelsea-i thought about the appearence vs. reality also. They appear to be nice but really, they still hate him... maybe not him, but his culture and the US in general. They know that Woody is his family, but they just can't come to accepting terms with him.
I think there is discrimination, but we haven't seen it happen yet. It is hard to tell whether or not they will experience this discrimination.
I would have thought that with the hundreds of thousands of Americans that were killed in the Pacific theater, the Americans probably had some resentment towards the Japanese immigrants
haha good question jess.i think it shows how selfish and self-centered the US people are, because they always think of themselves first before others. they dont look at it from the other peoples perspective, and they just worry about their safety. it is pretty much just like almost every other book we have read this semester, saying that human beings as a whole are greedy and take things for granted.
Paige-I think that there would be discrimination because the signs in the town had really disrespectful sayings on them. I don't think that keeping people in a camp and then putting them back out on the streets is going to change how the civilians feel towards them.
kimmy c. -- what you said about manzanar being a snowglobe seems to be a lot like the coral in 1984.
Paige-I was wondering that too. How can nothing change after all that time? It doesn't really make sense
Chelsea-I am in no way defending America, but aren't we all selfish and attached to our countries? I think that just shows that wherever we are, we would like to feel secure.
endsley---do anything to make Americans safe...? The Japanese were Americans. so who is a true American and who isn't?
Paige-I was wondering that too. Even though they aren't in the camps anymore, when they went back, people would still be suspicious of them. That's a very good question.
I think that farewell to manazanar really relates to 1984, by the government(1984) or the camp(manazanar) was a security blanket in a way.
shaunam, i disagree. i think that many people might feel guilty for treating the Japanese so badly. Others might treat them with indifference. I don't think they will experience outright hate, but they won't get any negative or guilty feeling directed towards them at all.
Yea, I agree that the aunt is genuinly happy to see Woody. She was Papa's favorite aunt and papa was her favorite nephew so they had a special connection, so obvioulsy she would like his kids. His aunt was the one to give Papa money so he could go to America as well so she must not have that much of a grudge against America.
Jess:I really like your question. I think this says that America is kind of like 1984. We are willing to sacrifice people's freedom and rights in order to establish security. Kind of like the Patriot Act.
A while ago in history class, we looked at propoganda posters. Many bars and anti-Japanese supporters posted signs that portrayed the Japanese as barbaric and slant-eyed. These people tried to do whatever they could to get support for the war. But, their minds see every Japanese person that way and they were not able to distinguish from the soldiers to the immigrants.
I agree with Alex, humans like to belong and feel secure. It happens everywhere in the world, which leads to conflict between these secure groups.
Paige- I think that after the war was over, people just really didn;t care anymore. They wanted to forget the war and the internment camps, and wanted to return to normalcy. I'm sure there was still a couple people that still hated the Japanese, but the majority just wanted to forget.
Chelsea,That is a very good point. Us Americans are very much self-centered and think of themselves beore others. tThey don't put themselves in other peoples shoes or worry about people from a different culture. It never crosses their minds.
That's a really good point Jess. What's the line between American or not. I don't really know what I think about that because Americans have come from all around the world. Sure people born here are Americans, but what about people that come here and become American citizens? Are they true Americans?
Chelsea, I agree that Americans are self-centered but i think that once in a while the bad things we as a country do will cross our minds but then we go back to oh well, well at least we are happy.
paigen-I agree, to me I think that our gvt. is a not as dramatic version of 1984. We have the same control as Big Brother did. It's interesting how we don't want our gvt to have to much control, but really, our gvt. has all the control.
Kim-I agree with you. The government in 1984 was there to make the people feel safe..maybe if they really weren't. In the same way, the internment camps for the Japanese made other people feel safe since Pearl Harbor had been bombed and we were now at war.
Sara-I think that is a really hard question because the Japanese living in America were Americans but they were still thrown into the internment camps. I don't think there is a solid definition of what an American is.
Jess... I think that those who choose to call themselves American can be American. We have problems, but who can be blamed for wanting to come to the greatest country in the world, so to speak? However, that comes with the side note that people might come here for themselves and themselves only, rather than to help America's causes.
I think a true American is just someone who knows they belong, some people are denied citizenship, like papa, but that doesn't mean he is not an American. He still stands up for the country. Born or not in America if you feel like you belong I think you are an American. Even if you disagree but I think it is your own personal choice in a way.
Sara,I don't think they have American in their bloods, but they have gotten their citizenship saying that they want to be apart of this culture and that they are committed to being Americans. I think that if they have become a citizen then they are Americans but just not in their blood.
I found it interesting that Jeanne mentions that the most affecting moments in her life so far are when Pearl Harbor was bombed, and when the bombs were dropped on hiroshima. What does this really say about the Japanese at this time is their life dependant on war?
Sara, this issue gets into much of the immigration and terrorist issues that our country faces today. We are trying to let people into the US that have been in combat zones in the middle east. But we see that men that were brought into Fort Dix by Clinton tried to kill American troops even though they were Americans
Christa, you bring up an interesting point. It is strange how America made it a really big deal that we should put Japanese people in internment camps, but as soon as the war is over, we want to forget it. Do you think that we are ashamed of what we did so we want to just forget it?
Paige- You make a good point. Why would the discrimination dissapear? How could it disappear?I think even in our life, it has not totally dissapeared, but not specifically to any one group.
AdamIt is not the feeling of security that causes conflicts. It is the human greed and selfishness. People want to feel better than others, hence there is racism. Japanese happen to look different so white people started to hate them for being different. They threaten white people's superiority over others.
alexm--i agree with what you are saying but i also think that america in general is worse than other countries. we have more (material wise) and therefore we want more and have grown to become more self centered...tana--thanks. :Djess--yes i definitely saw the appearance vs. reality thing. im not sure that they arent genuinely happy to see woody, but i think that they might be holding something back and not telling the whole story...
What do you mean, Kim?
Tana-That's a good point. So I guess Americans can be born, blood Americans. But they can also be people who were not necessarily born here, but feel like this is where they belong and where they want to be.
I think that if you have committed yourself and loyalty to the country then that is your true culture. So the Japanese that have loyalty to this country are Americans.
alex-I think that people who are able to be citizens should be American citizens. But that also brings up the fact of illegal immigrants. Do they belong here or not? That's a big social issue right now...
Jess-It's hard to just call one kind of person American or not. People come from all over the world to try and live here have have a better life. Isn't the United States called the "land of opprotunity?" Here, anyone can get a better job which gives you a better chance at life.
Paige- I think that is partly it. If you think about it, I knew about the Holocaust long before I ever learned about Manzanar. We aren't ashamed to share about the atrocities of the Holocaust because they were committed by the Nazis. But when it comes to our own atrocities, we don't like to discuss them.
~~Alex m.~~What are you asking about?
Like Papa said when the war started between Japan and the US, it was like his parents were fighting
I agree Kathyrn. We still have discrimination today. We may not outright show it, but most people still think it. I think that maybe we tried to just forget about the camps because we knew that was racist and like I said before, we were kind of ashamed of it.
Phillip-I agree that selfishness and greed are partly responsible for conflict and that people like to feel superior over others, but they want there group to feel superior over the other group. People want to get rid of other secure groups.
Kimmy, I think this says that like papa said they have loyalty to both countries and just don't want the war to be going on at all. It's like when papa was in the interview and was asked which side of the war he was on and he said if your mom and your dad were fighting you'd just want them to stop wouldn't you? It kind of says that during the war the Japanese directly from Japan still had a since of citizenship to Japan as well as America.
Chelsea-We do, but that doesn't mean that other countries aren't just as bad. As much as America and Americans piss me off, I would much rather exist here than be ripped apart by an IED in the Middle East. Or live in extreme poverty in South America. Or have a useless army like in France.We don't strike out all the time. We have hit some homeruns, even with all our errors.
kimmy-that is really interesting. i dont know why she would be saying that the most affecting momentes of her life was the bombs being dropped on Pearl Harbor and Hiroshima. Im not really sure what this is saying about the Japanese during the war. I dont think that they need war. because in their national anthem it says "keep this peaceful reign" and war isnt very peaceful.
Christa-I definitly agree with that. We learn about the Holocaust almost every year since 6th grade. I heard about the internment camps in 8th grade and understood them this year. America does not like to publicize their wrongdoings.
Jess b-- I think that in some way, you are right, that our government does have all the control, but at the same time, we try to allow the people (us) to have a say. We have the option to vote and we elect our leaders. My history teacher often has said, "The people get the leader they deserve," or something to that extent; people get the leader that reflects them, and so, they do have a say in the government and the government doesn't have ALL the control.
Hannah j:But now, there are all these people who are in America and taking over American jobs that should not even be here. Lik i told alexm, illegal immigrants are a huge problem right now. Some people who should rightfully have an oppurtunity here now are able to because of those who aren't supposed to be here.
Elyse-I definitely agree with you. Just because someone might not be American born they can still have loyalty for their country like Papa and the rest of the family. When they were going to be forced to take the Loyalty Oath, Papa was going to say 'Yes and Yes' knowing that there might be a chance he would be drafted to the war. But he knew that he would rather do that than be shipped back to Japan.
paige, i agree with your comment. I think that the gov does not want to be remebered for their bad moments, so they sweep them "under the rug" and forget about them. Plus, i think they let the Japanese out of the camps more out of guilt and to clear the gov's conscience instead of for the benefit of the Japanese.
elyse-i agree with you. and that is also why i think that there is some appearance v. reality on the way the family members are treating woody. im not convinced that they are telling and acting 100% truthful. i also think that the US is one of the most greedy self centered countries in the world.
Christa First, the holocaust, or any genocide, cannot be compared to manzanar. Internment camps are completely different than complete destruction of a collection of people. Second, I agree that we do put down what we have down, because it makes us feel better about ourselves.
Yea how the heck is America one of the worst countries in the world???? What are you typing on in school right now?
Christa,Isn't that true of most countries, like Turkey, who hasn't even recognized the 1 million aremnians they massacred. But Manzanar is less known, because it is not as horrible as the Holocaust. Although Manzanar was bad, compared to almost everyone in thw world at that time, they still had it better off than everybody but other people in North America.
Kathryn-Could it be that we are all just brain-washed like in 1984? Maybe, we think we have some say, but we really don't.
Jess, it's true about 1984 and our government. Even though the people get to elect the representatives, the representatives are still looking out for themselves first. We were talking about how in history, legislators will make decisions based on whether or not it will help them get re-elected. But Congress is really the ones in charge, if they decided to have all of the power, they could.
It is hard to judge was is "bad" and what is "good". It is all dependent on perspective, and in way, the way we were raised the place, and the customs we learned.
Jess-That's true. I don't think it's fair that people can come here illegally and take jobs that other people should have for coming here legally and going through all the trouble to do so.
That is true. Manzanar was definitely not as bad as the Holocaust, but my point was that our country, or any country for that matter, has no problem talking about the wrongdoings of other countries, but when it comes to their own mistakes, they try to hush it up.
Well Jess, thats what I meant. Those people are there for themselves, and obviously do not care much for America. They don't take the care to actually apply for citizenship. They don't come and do particularly skilled labor (think yardwork and fastfood). They don't go and fight in America's wars. Living in America does not make you American. As much as I don't like saying this, 'American' has become a stereotypical conservative likeness.
paige-Yeah. I agree with you. Congress could possibly take over our country and gain all our control, before we know it we could be like 1984. ahhhh scary to think about.
I agree with Christa. Countries love to point out other countries mistakes, but try to stay away from their own. Individual people tend to do this too.
Christa, I agree that whenever our country makes a mistake we try to hide it and make the focus on other countries' mistakes, which kind of reminds me of 1984 because the government alters everything to make it look like they are never wrong and they always predict what is going to happen.
Well in a way some illegal immigrants could just being using our country since they are not willing to fight for their freedom in our country and their citizenship. They are not proving their loyalty to the country by not getting their citizenship.
Well George is trying....
christas, i think that is true for all governments. They try to expose other countries for the bad things and mistakes they make, but they hush up all the bad things in their own country. it's human nature to try to make ourselves look better than others, even if we are not.
We don't Try to hush it up. We try to forget it. The only way we think that we can forget our own atrocities is by telling about everyone else's wrong doings. People want to feel good about themselves and this is one way to attempt to create that happiness.
Jess that is what I think about when I see people trying to take words like God out of the pledge. This is how communism started in Russia and China, people gave the government too much control on all fronts of society.
ChristaI agree that some countries do that, but Germany and America do not. Manzanar is just less known about because, again, it wasn't that bad compared to what else was happening in the world at that time. It was overshadowed.
alex-I agree with you. I like your comment of being an American is different from living in America.We have different responsabilities to keep our country going.
JessB- That is a possibility, but even if we didn't have the option to vote, we would still get the leader that we deserved. When a country is in need, their leader is often one who is a little absurd, and if the large majority of the people really didn't like him, and he didn't reflect their country and themselves, then I think that there is a large chance that he would be quickly overthrown.
adamb, isn't it as bad? We are on the outside, we only know what others tell us, but have not experienced it. Try to see it from the Japanese people's point of view? I think they would say it was as bad for them.
Alex M-Some people do take advantage of the opprotunities that the United States offers. They don't care about the war going on, nor helping out with it..and they don't care that they take jobs that probably belong to other people. All they care about it getting a better life and not about how it will affect (effect?) other people.
joshb- I agree with you. the pledge kind of definds us as Americans. So, could it be that a real American truly believes in everything the pledge of allegence says?
Jess--and in the perfect Amerika, thats how it would be. Thats what it was founded to be. But now we're back at square one.
Yea, even in the history books. A few days ago we were reading about the My Lai massacre in history, and there was like 4 sentences about it in the book and it said "over 100 vietnamese citizens were killed" The real statistic is over 550 vietnamese citizens was killed.
Adam, I don't agree with you. Most German civilians would try to deny every little bit about the Holocaust after it ended. They were ashamed that the Nazis led their country and try to forget about it and move on. Of course, everyone still knows about it, but they would prefer it if when people hear Germany the first thing they think is Holocaust.
adamb, what do you mean America and Germany do not try to forget their mistakes, etc.? What about the holocaust? i would say there are many things we try to forget about.
I agree with Connor, and also with the My Lai massacre, the US public didn't hear about it until 19 months later.
Jess-Well you dont have to believe in God to be an American, but the pledge defines reilgion and patriotism which have been the two biggest bases of society since the founding of the country.
Kathryn-But right now, alot of people don't agree with the war and with the president. No one has overthrown him. The only person who has really ever been impeached is Nixon and Clinton. They got overthrown for personal reasons, and not political...?
Jess-in reference to your most recent post to Josh-NO!a true American should protest what the pledge says. Why? because we are SUPPOSED TO.
alex and jess--i definitely agree with you when you say that being and american is different than living in america. and i think that is why the japanese americans were sent to the internment camps.... the government thought that they werent loyal americans, they just lived in america, but in their minds (especially jeanne's) they are all loyal americans. i also think that the japanese americans believe that they can be loyal to two different countries, but the government officials cannot comprehend that. and in their opinion, if they are even the tiniest bit loyal to Japan, they are traitors of america.
Alex-What do ou mean that we are supposed to?
SarahThe Japaneses were almost better of in the camps, because of the anti-Japanese feelings in America it would have been impossible to get a job. They would have been unable to pay rent, for food, and for clothing. In the camps they got all of this, it wasn't ideal but it was way better than if they would have had to fight for survival outside the camps.
Yeah...what do you mean we are supposed to?
I agree with Sarah. I think that America and Germany try to cover up mistakes as much as anyone, but I do agree with Adam that we didn't learn very much about the Japanese internment camps because they were overshadowed by other things, like the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, for instance.
Nixon and Clinton were not impeached. No president has ever been impeached. Just because a lot of people don't agree wit the war doesn't mean that the majority doesn't agree.
Sarah-From what the book is saying and what other experiences say, it wasn't as bad. They had homes, food, scjools, churches, families, and other things. The biggest thing that she complains about besides moving is apricot syrup on rice. People in China were being massacred, people in Europe were i war and homless, without food, without shelter, without families. Africa has always been bad and same with S. America. Even people Japan had it worse off. Manzanar was comparitively was pretty good.
I would like to point out that it is a crime in Germany to deny the holocaust and they are trying to ban the swastika, but they do not cover up their mistakes because if that happens then it will repeat and we and Germany and other countries realize that and do not cover up their horrible mistakes, because if they do our anyone odes, it will happen again.
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