LOF connections to Macbeth
Macbeth declares an impassioned phrase when he feels that he is caught in all the turmoil he has created. He says, "It will have blood they say. Blood will have blood... (Act 3). What did Macbeth mean? How does this ring true for Macbeth? How does this also connect to the situtation Jack and Rlaph find themselves in Lord of the Flies.
posted by annes @ 8:09 AM
27 Comments:
Honestly that is one of the main quotes I have been wondering over. I think that it has something to do with revenge and that Macbeth is fearful of revenge from all of the people who he has killed. As for Jack and Ralph, I think it has something to do with hunting of pigs. Jack has an insatiable need for blood and somehow the island will have its revenge, or blood, for the blood of the pigs. Ralph also wants revenge on Jack becuase of the power that Jack has taken from him.
I think Macbeth means by "It will have blood they say. Blood will have blood... (Act 3) that when he kills, he wants to kill more and more. He is saying that killing leads to more killing. This rings true for Macbeth because he does kill and kill, and the more he does it, the less guilty he feels. That's what happens in real life. When we do, say, or watch bad things over and over again, we become nulled against those things, and don't think they are as bad any more. This also connects to how Jack and Ralph are doing. Jack and his hunters have now killed several pigs, and love to do it. Once they started killing pigs and liking it, it was inevitable that they would one day start killing each other. Then, after they killed Simon and Piggy, they now don't care and are using death to threaten each other.
Macbeth is realizing that by killing one person, he has gotten trapped in a hole of having to kill person after person. I think by saying "blood will have blood," he is stating the connection from dead person to the next person who needs to be killed.
I think this also relates to Lord of the Flies because Jack is continually taking over and ignoring the fire. Pretty soon, he will realize how he is just making their situation worse, especially if he keeps killing pigs for fun and they run out of pigs.
I agree with sarahc, and I think both Macbeth and Jack become more bloodthirsty after every kill. I think that when these two individuals are becoming more and more isolated because of their obsession with killing. Jack's obsession with killing pigs broke the tribe apart. Macbeth's obsession with killing people has caused Malcom and Macduff to try and get revenge on him. This is one of the decisions you make when you take that path.
I think that blood will have blood relates to the chain of killing more and more people like Maria and Paige said. It seems as though Macbeth is addicted to killing and for whatever reason just can't stop. For him killing is just as addicting as cigarettes or alochol is today.
An addiciton though in LOF is an addiction to a particular goal. In Ralph's case his goal to get off the island. He focuses all his enegry towards acheiving this goal. This comes in conflict with Jack's addcition to life, and the way he jsut wants to live life.
I agree with what everyone else has said to this point. Macbeth that killing one person led to killing others, which create a chain reaction of death. This applies to Macbeth because once he killed Duncan, he was willing to do whatever it took to protect the thrown, and that involved the killings of Banquo and Fleance, and will probably lead to more. In LOF, this applies to Jack in Ralph in the sense that once Piggy was killed, things spiraled out of control with the death of Simon and the massive hunt to find and kill Ralph. It also can be connected to the general theme of one thing sparking a whole host of other problems in a chain reaction. The sighting of the beastie started it, and it morphed into murder and savagery.
I agree completely with what emilyl said. When Macbeth uses the idea of "blood will have blood" he is referring to the idea of a continuing chain of murder. Though, I believe that it is more of an idea that once Macbeth has crossed the line into murder, he can never come back. Once he has taken the initiative and done one evil murder, he can never stop.
This idea of "the point of no return" is also evident in Lord of the Flies. In Lord of the Flies, once Jack kills the pig, once he has spilled blood, there is nothing he won't do. He has no more reservations, so anything goes with him. He has crossed the line. Ralph, on the other hand, is trying to prevent himself from being swept up into the frenzy and also crossing the line himself. He holds dearly to the idea of a grown-up, which to him represents order and morality.
In both cases, the idea of "blood having blood" symbolizes losing (or keeping) morality.
I also agree with emilyl and annad in that "blood will have blood" refers to the chain of murders. I agree that once he crossed the line that you can never go back. My Uncle used to say that once you drink black coffee that you never go back on drinking it with milk or whatever else you would put in it. I think that has the same idea going on.
In Lord of the Flies, Jack tries to gain control and once he gets there he isn't going to back down. Why would you give up after you have gained so much. Macbeth had gained power by killing so why would he stop if he had gained from it?
I agree with everyone in saying that Macbeth is saying that all the killing leads to more killing and it's just a viscous circle. Plus, Macbeth can't stop killing because as he's on the road to power, he needs to cover up his tracks and make sure that no one can overtake him.
In LOTF, I agree with everyone and saying that Jack keeps killing and killing and it takes over his mind. But I also think that power could be involved in there somewhere. The longer that they were on the island, the more power that they wanted to gain and the more that the boys were dependent upon those leaders.
I pretty much agree with everyone that it means that there will be more deaths, but I agree with joanneh that Macbeth thinks he will most likely fall the same way. After killing so many, he makes many enemies. And now they will want to have his blood. This rings true for him because Malcolm wants to kill him because he killed his father. And also, Macduff wants to kill Macbeth because he killed his family.
I think one of the strongest correlation I found between Macbeth and Lord of the Flies are how both Macbeth and Jack both "Cross the Line." Meaning that they get to the point where killing is always the solution. They both want power. Jack used coersion more to get it, whereas Macbeth used murder. But now that they have it, they kill to keep it. Whatever it takes is whatever they do. There was a defined moment for each where murder becamse acceptable as a solution to a dispute. For Macbeth, I think it was when he ordered the death of Banquo; for Jack when he ordered the death of Piggy.
When Macbeth says "Blood will have blood" I think he just means that killing one person won't resolve anything. After Macbeth killed Duncan, he began to see everyone around him as a threat, so he eliminated them. Macbeth will just continue to see everyone as a threat to his power, and the murders will go on and on, and eventually Macbeth will lose all guilt about his actions.
This connects to LOF because as everyone has stated, Jack also has an insatiable thirst for blood. He wants the power of being chief, and is suspicious of anyone who could take away that power, like Ralph. After Simon and Piggy are killed, Jack has absolutely no remorse about killing and hunts for Ralph so that he is no longer a threat. I agree with benh in that Macbeth and Jack both "cross the line" and make killing others the solution for every problem that they have. I think that in a way, Ralph is sort of like Banquo and Jack is like Macbeth because at one point, they were friends that were surviving together. But when Jack sees Ralph as a threat to his role as chief, he tries to get rid of him.
I think that Macbeth means that once you kill someone, you have to keep on killing to cover up and it just keeps on going.
In LOF when Jack puts on the paint and goes and kills something, something inside him feels like he has to keep going and so he keeps on killing. I think that this is taking over him and he feels like he has the power once he does the killing.
When Macbeth says this, it is symbolism, and he means a few different things. First, he is saying that blood leads to more blood, and that murder leads to more murder. I take this as that he can’t control his actions, and that once this death sequence starts, there is no definite end. He is saying that there is always a certain level to live up to, and that once started, there is no turning back. For Macbeth, this is true because he first killed Duncan, and now he feels that he must kill Macduff and his family, in order for his future to take place the way he wants it to.
This connects to Lord of the Flies, and Ralph and Jack in a few ways, as well. Jack puts on a mask, like shauna said, and goes and kills something. After doing this, he feels the need to keep killing, the same way that Macbeth does. In both cases, it is like the two characters are stepping out of reality and into a new place. In this new place it is ok to kill and fulfill the needs that one feels inside.
I think that reality will catch up to them, though, and that they will regret not controlling their actions. I think that anyone can control all of their actions, even though it may be hard. Jack and Macbeth felt that the killing was necessary was to get what they want in their future.
I think that when Macbeth says, "Blood will have blood..." (Act 3)he is refering to justice. In many instances, we relate blood to death so the first blood represents those who Macbeth has already killed. The second blood refers to Macbeth's blood and by killing Macbeth, the dead will have justice. In other words, victims of Macbeth will have justice when his blood is spilled. This relates to LOF because the boys are rescued and although we don't know for sure, we can assume that they go back to living in a civilized society. Jack and his tribe may never change, but they will have to live with the fact that they were responsible for the death of two boys. That in itself can be justice. However, seeing as Ralph knows the truth about what went on in the island, we can't exclude the possibility that Jack and his tribe were tried for the murders of Piggy and Simon, which, if convicted, would be justice.
I agree with everyone about the fact that there will be more deaths. I don't think Macbeth is going to stop. He's gotten so much power form murder, and it seems that it gets easier for Macbeth to muder every time he does it. This is also true for Jack he has gone from whanting to hunt pigs to wanting to hunt and kill Ralph. I believe that he wont be able to stop killing either
When Macbeth says "it will have blood they say." I think he is refering to the people of Scotland, saying that their country will break out in war. He goes on to say "blood will have blood" because he knows how much disruption he has caused, how much blood has been shed, and that the people will try to get revenge on Macbeth for plotting and killing the king and Banquo. Therefore, HIS blood and others that die fighting will be shed for the death/blood of Banquo and King Duncan. This becomes true for Macbeth because Malcolm and Macduff already have an army prepared and plan to attack Macbeth and his throne.
This also relates to Lord of the Flies because the desire of power for both Ralph and Jack lead to the separation of the group. The ambition both boys had was expressed through their leadership, and although Ralph's was probably better for the group as a whole, the ways he led and the power he possessed finally tipped Jack over the edge and he left the group to be on his own. This then causes problems because Ralph's group has to provide for what Jack did now that he is gone, and visa versa.
I also agree with joanneh. It does appear to me that the quote "Blood will have blood" means that the person that makes other bleed will bleed himself. Revenge is the name of the game. It also won't ever end. Once one person is killed, more will be. In Macbeth, I think that because he has killed, he will be killed, or at least hurt very badly. In Lord of the Flies, Jack killed the pigs and has now escalated to people.
When Macbeth says, "It will have blood they say. Blood will have blood..." Act III, I think what Macbeth is trying to say is that first you kill one person; "It will have blood they say." Then, after one killing has been committed, more killings will follow. The quote should read, "Blood will have blood will have blood will have blood..." until someone steps up, challenges the system and stops it, or somehow the source of the killings is destroyed. Macbeth, like sarac said earlier, needs to keep killing in order to maintain his status. But, he also has to keep killing because he must protect himself. If others try to kill him, Macbeth will strike back. He kills for safety, and to maintain authority.
This situation Macbeth finds himself in relates to the situation Jack and Ralph find themselves in because simply people on the island keep dieing. Not dieing because they have killed themselves or natural causes, but MURDER. Simon was the first to be taken by the savages, then followed Piggy. Where does the process end? When the source is stopped. The officer and the boat brought back the savages to reality and stopped them from continuing their killings any further. But had the boat not come, where would the death stop? Never? They would have killed Ralph; Ralph might kill some people in the process, and then what would the survivors eat after they burnt down the island? "Blood will have blood" would eventually lead to extinction of humans on the island. "Blood will have blood will have blood will have blood..."
I think,"Blood will have blood" means that once you have killed one person you have to keep killing because there will always be another person next in line or in the way. It could be compared to like the food chain, it is never ending and one leads into another. This is sort of like the death chain I guess that one murder will always lead into another. This is sort of what many other poeple have said in a way. This is true because Macbeth first started with murdering the king or Duncan, but once he did that he couldn't stop there because there were still many more people inbetween him and the throne still.
This connects to the situation in Lord of the Flies because once Jack killed his first pig or boar he has always felt the need to keep killing which will only lead to more murders of animals and even possibly people which would be bad because that would only lead to the death of more people. It is never ending.
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I agree with everyone that once you kill, and you are violent, people are violent right back. Which leads to more murders, so Macbeth will probably be killed and in LOF it shows that because Jack became so violent he had to pay, by having to work to earn his own things.
When Macbeth says "Blood will have blood" I think he means that once the killings start happening, they are going to keep on going and going. This is true for Macbeth because once King Duncan is killed, more and more people were killed by the murders. (Banquo)
This is also connected to Lord Of the Flies, because once Jack is strong enough to kill the pig, the killing kept on going. More and more pigs were being killed, they killed Simon and Piggy, and the parachute man on top of the mountain was dead too.
In both Macbeth and LOF blood will lead to blodd. In Macbeth once macbeth commits 2 murders they just keep killing. It is the same with LOF when Jack becomes chief. Once the tribe kills simon they just get crazier for blood and want to kill things. Also, Jack manipulates his tribe just like Lady Macbeth manipulated macbeth and macbeth manipulated Scotland.
There were huge similarities when in LOTF, the group killed Simon and then tried to justify it by saying that Ssimon was the beast and that the beast could take on any form. This is similiar to Macbeth because he convinces himself that he needs to kill and that the killing is justified.
MCKENNAD~~~
It seems that one thing leads to the next. When Macbeth says that “blood will have blood” I think that he is saying that one murder will lead to the next, and continue in a dangerous cycle. On the island, the first murder, in which Simon is killed, is tried to be masked over quickly. The boys know what happened, but none want to admit it, just like Macbeth knows what he did to Duncan. Though, in Macbeth’s case, it is obvious that he know exactly what he did, where as the boys have an idea. One murder leads to the next. It seems to lead most to the killing of friends, for Banquo, and Piggy are the next victims. “Blood will have blood” becomes a vicious cycle.
~Posted by MckennaD
Jack becomes a lot like Macbeth because after Macbeth has started his 'killing spree' he can't stop and turn back. Jack is the same way. He becomes so power hungry that he feels the need to kill off the people he's been spending time with for the past few months and devolped relationships with (even the bad ones).
This is another one of the blogs that I blogged on earlier, but somehow it didn't get through.
I agree with hannahj about how both Macbeth and Jack have gone so far killing people that it is hard to stop. The satisfaction of killing the people, or in Jack's case, the pig, has given them a sense of power and they want more. They have gotten rid of others that were in their way, and they see more and more that could be a potential threat. They have become power hungry.
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