Wednesday, October 11, 2006

Fahrenheit 451 Live Blogging 40-68 period 2

167 Comments:

Blogger Phillips said...

Let's get started!

Mon Oct 16, 08:44:00 AM  
Blogger alexm said...

i get second comment!

Mon Oct 16, 08:46:00 AM  
Blogger AleeA said...

Ok, I'm confused about the whole reading in pages 40-68. Could somebody sum it up for me? I'm just confused on what was going on.

Mon Oct 16, 08:47:00 AM  
Blogger kjerstinl said...

How come Mildred says that the TV walls are her family? Why isn't Montag good enough?

Mon Oct 16, 08:47:00 AM  
Blogger joshb said...

this is a pretty cool book, not gonna lie

Mon Oct 16, 08:47:00 AM  
Blogger kimmy c said...

so what I really want to know about is what are th seashell earpieces that mildred is wearing? What is she hearing?

Mon Oct 16, 08:47:00 AM  
Blogger shaunam said...

I had the question of did Mildred really forget to tell Montag or did she just not want to tell him?

Mon Oct 16, 08:47:00 AM  
Blogger briang said...

First of all, could someone explain to me the whole tv wall thing. I dont really understand how they are her family, and i dont really understand the parlor. Help please

Mon Oct 16, 08:48:00 AM  
Blogger tanal said...

okay so i was kind of confused when mildred was talking to montag about the "relatives," at the beginning of this section. what are the relatives?

Mon Oct 16, 08:48:00 AM  
Blogger christa s said...

Well, I was wondering what Montag's hands might symbolize, because he is always talking about how his hands act like they have a mind of their own and just took the book without him really thinking about it.

Mon Oct 16, 08:48:00 AM  
Blogger chelseah said...

Alee~ Listen to what they are saying right now, and Im sure some of your questions will be solved... also, just pay attention to what we are blogging right now, and by the end i think that it will help you.

Mon Oct 16, 08:48:00 AM  
Blogger saram said...

Me too Alee. I'm really confused too. Can someone just kind of briefly say what happened for us?

Mon Oct 16, 08:48:00 AM  
Blogger AleeA said...

kjerstinl: I think that Mildred cosiders the TV walls her family because Montag is not really around that much, so she spends most of her time in that room. I think that since she spends more time with them, she considers that they are more like family to her than Montag.

Mon Oct 16, 08:48:00 AM  
Blogger Phillips said...

The seashell earpeice is a radio that you put in your ear like a earbuds minus the cords.

Mon Oct 16, 08:48:00 AM  
Blogger kjerstinl said...

When Mildred and Montag were trying to figure out where they met, could it be possible that they were just made and put together? Like in the movie "The Island" They have some memories, but they were just created. Could this be like that?

Mon Oct 16, 08:48:00 AM  
Blogger kimmy c said...

shauna what did mildred foret to tell montag

Mon Oct 16, 08:49:00 AM  
Blogger endsleye said...

kjerstinl thats what I was thinking. Also doesn't it say that Mildred didn't know who was who in the T.V. walls?

Mon Oct 16, 08:49:00 AM  
Blogger jess b said...

A question that I had through the book is How did the old woman affect Montag? What does this start to do to him? Also---
When he finds out that Clarisse is dead how do you think he will react to that?

Mon Oct 16, 08:49:00 AM  
Blogger Phillips said...

The family i think is a interactive soap opera, she gets to gossip and laugh with the "family" about the "family".

Mon Oct 16, 08:49:00 AM  
Blogger alexm said...

kjerstinl: i think that Mildred is acting like that because there is no such thing as a real family at that time. The TV gives life to everything...I think thats why she says it.

Mon Oct 16, 08:49:00 AM  
Blogger joshb said...

The earpieces may represent the government speaking in your ear and being the only thing that goes into your head.

Mon Oct 16, 08:49:00 AM  
Blogger KathrynT said...

Kjerstinl-- I think that half the time Montag is gone, so she gets lonely and listtens to the tv walls. I am confused though how the tv walls work. Could someone help me here please?

Mon Oct 16, 08:50:00 AM  
Blogger alexm said...

I definately agree with Phillip...very good point

Mon Oct 16, 08:50:00 AM  
Blogger briang said...

I think Mildred really did forget, because she is not ver intelligent, and it seems like in this society, there isnt any feeling other than hppiness, or at least thats what they go for. I think death doesnt concern normal people. It was a bigger deal to Montag because he formed a bond with her.

Mon Oct 16, 08:50:00 AM  
Blogger kjerstinl said...

If many of the ideas of the past have been lost, how come the idea of "family" is still around?

Mon Oct 16, 08:50:00 AM  
Blogger ETAC of LPS said...

why is burning a book such a big, deal? It's just paper, right?

Mon Oct 16, 08:50:00 AM  
Blogger AleeA said...

Could someone please help saram and me out with summing up what happened in this reading?!

Mon Oct 16, 08:51:00 AM  
Blogger ADRIANA G said...

Kathryn--I think the walls are just like a really big surround-sound system

Mon Oct 16, 08:51:00 AM  
Blogger elyse h said...

I agree with brian, i think that Mildred really did forget because she really didn't think it mattered that just another girl died, because it happens all the time in that society.

Mon Oct 16, 08:51:00 AM  
Blogger chelseah said...

Jess~ I think that the old lady is having kind of the same affect on Montag as Clarisse did. They are both really starting to get to him, and make him question the life that he is living.

Mon Oct 16, 08:51:00 AM  
Blogger christa s said...

tanal and briang~
The parlor is just where the people sit and watch TV. The TV takes up the whole wall. The relatives are the people in the shows that she watches on the TV. She is constantly involved in their "lives" and they are like her family because she constanly spends time with them in the living room.

Mon Oct 16, 08:52:00 AM  
Blogger jess b said...

What do you think about telivision? Does it really effect people as much as Bradbury believes it does? Do you think that if technology keeps evolving we may end up like the people in the book??

Mon Oct 16, 08:52:00 AM  
Blogger joshb said...

kjerstin yea that is a cool comment on the island because that is a lot like what i think is going on. this is an interesting book. I wonder what it is going to end up as

Mon Oct 16, 08:52:00 AM  
Blogger alexm said...

I play jokes on my TV obsessed friends by saying: "did you see that new episode of ______?" they insist on hearing what I was talking about, and when I tell them I wasn't actually talking about it, just making fun of them...they get mad because the TV is their savior

Mon Oct 16, 08:52:00 AM  
Blogger connord said...

The walls are the things that the government can watch the people through i think. It is how they control and watch what the people are doin. For example, at the beginning of the novel it said that a married couple couldn't sleep together and I think that is monitered through the walls.

Mon Oct 16, 08:53:00 AM  
Blogger AleeA said...

etac of lps: I think that even though the books are just paper, they have more of a symbolic meaning to people than anything else. It is what is in the books that is so important, for they make people think, at it seems that this is a society that isn't supposed to think for themselves. I think that the burning of the books is so important not because of the material value, but the implied material inside.

Mon Oct 16, 08:53:00 AM  
Blogger Sarah C said...

Aleea, I think that what happened in 40-68 is that Montag got sick, and Beatty somehow found out, and he thinks that Montag is going through that time in which he doesn't know what his job about, if he wants to continue with it. So he tells him why books are burned, and why society has become what it has (everyone happy and no one actually questioning, talking, debating, or even THINKING). While Beatty is talking, Mildred fixes up the room and discovers the book behind Montag's pillow, but Beatty does not find out about it. After Beatty finishes explaining everything, he asks Montag if he will come to the firehouse on a later shift and is surprised when he says no. After he leaves, Montag pulls at least 20 books out of his ventillartor grille, he also finds out that Clarisse was killed in a car accident (cruel twist of fate or setup?).

Mon Oct 16, 08:53:00 AM  
Blogger KathrynT said...

Thanks Adriana. I kind of picture them as the whole wall as a tv. Does anyone else see it this way?

Mon Oct 16, 08:53:00 AM  
Blogger HannahJ said...

yeah the parlor walls are just huge tvs that take up the whole wall. i couldn't imagine having a room with walls that are tvs. i think i'd get a headache.

Mon Oct 16, 08:53:00 AM  
Blogger tanal said...

I think that burning the books is such a big deal because everone thinks that the firemen used to put out fires rather than start them. Aslo they don't want the people to learn anything from reading the books. Also many things are made up in the books, so they dont want the people to gain any false information and ask any questions.

Mon Oct 16, 08:53:00 AM  
Blogger jess b said...

Chelsea--

I guess that's true. But, why is it now. Why is it all of a sudden?? Do you think that he will change and try to challenge the society?

Mon Oct 16, 08:53:00 AM  
Blogger kimmy c said...

Books aren't just paper, it's about what's on the paper... why would the government burn the paper if it wasn't important. books can lead us to different worlds give us different ideas, and expand our minds.

Mon Oct 16, 08:54:00 AM  
Blogger alexm said...

The TV has an enourmous part in what society is today. I don't think tha twill change for a good long time...

Mon Oct 16, 08:54:00 AM  
Blogger elyse h said...

If the walls were monitoring people, wouldn't they realize who had books sooner?

Mon Oct 16, 08:54:00 AM  
Blogger saram said...

Like Smith said in the conversation, Bradbury wrote this in the 1950s. So, does this mean that right now is the future he was writing about back then? Did he think that right now we would be burning books because it's not technlogy?

Mon Oct 16, 08:54:00 AM  
Blogger joshb said...

When Bradbury wrote this book, tv was becoming a huge part of society. This was in the Vietnam era when reporters would come after battles and report to the rest of the nation exactly what was going on and depicting the graphic images of the war.

Mon Oct 16, 08:55:00 AM  
Blogger briang said...

TV does effect us. Now, you can thousands of channels that can give you any kind of information you want. The weather, the news, sports, history, science, cartoons, everything at some point or another can be found on tv it seems. T.V. is a huge part of our lives. We discuss it, we watch it, we learn from it.

Mon Oct 16, 08:55:00 AM  
Blogger AleeA said...

Thanks sara c. That helped me get a better grasp of the reading.

Mon Oct 16, 08:55:00 AM  
Blogger connord said...

I agree with alee. Books are symbolic for imagination and free thinking and the government doesn't want that.

Mon Oct 16, 08:55:00 AM  
Blogger saram said...

I have the same question as elyse. Why don't they use the tvs to see whoe has books?

Mon Oct 16, 08:55:00 AM  
Blogger christa s said...

jessb~
I don't think that if technology keeps evolving we will be all trying to commit suicide and live in a dull colorless world like the people in F451,but I think that we may start to lose all human contact. For instance, you don't even have to go into banks anymore. You can just get your money in a little tube sent out of the bank. You don't have to go into restaurants- you can just go to the drive through. The only contact you get is when the McDonald's worker hands you your burger through the window.

Mon Oct 16, 08:55:00 AM  
Blogger jess b said...

tana--
don't you think that books can offend people? I mean books are banned now in different states, and if so.... is there a limit to what context can be in the books?

Mon Oct 16, 08:55:00 AM  
Blogger Sarah C said...

Books are really important to society because thay record history, they show that THINGS ACTUALLY HAPPENED. Even though people may think books have become inferior, they are the definite recorders of our past. Oral hisotry soon disappears, but books put it down in writing. Maybe the government doesn't want the people to know the REAL history of civilization. They want people to be ignorant.

Mon Oct 16, 08:56:00 AM  
Blogger tanal said...

Sara m you have a really good point. when bradbury wrote this book was he writing about now as the future since he wrote the book in 1950's?

Mon Oct 16, 08:56:00 AM  
Blogger alexm said...

Books allow us to think for ourselves, not a screen leaving no open ends. Think of all the really really good movies you've seen: almost all were books first...Silence of the Lambs, book. Lord of the Rings, book. Kinda weird isn't it...

Mon Oct 16, 08:56:00 AM  
Blogger joshb said...

I think that Bradbury had a very bleak outlook at the future. He was warning us that technology would eventually take over our lives.

Mon Oct 16, 08:56:00 AM  
Blogger alexm said...

Bradbury has a creepy sense of what is to come inevitably in the future...

Mon Oct 16, 08:57:00 AM  
Blogger connord said...

It is amazing that Bradbury could predict the importance of electronics way back in the fifties. Now everyone has a tv, a cell pone and an iPod. These things are integral to our society now.

Mon Oct 16, 08:57:00 AM  
Blogger christa s said...

He does have a really bleak outlook on the future, but a lot of what he said is true today.

Mon Oct 16, 08:58:00 AM  
Blogger ADRIANA G said...

It is a very bleak outlook, but I think our society is the opposite. We use technollogy to help advance ourselves. We can communicate and research and challenge the system.

Mon Oct 16, 08:58:00 AM  
Blogger jess b said...

christa--
i understand your point. But because of technology I become in better contact wiht people around me. In this class I think that we have all become closer just becuase we can interact on computers and later on at night over blogging. Also, myspace helps alot of people stay in contact. My best friend moved and the only way i talkt o her now is over that. And cell phones are a great way to communicate. I think that there may be a certain line that makes technology helpful or harmful to the human society.

Mon Oct 16, 08:58:00 AM  
Blogger KathrynT said...

etac of lps: I think that that questioin is one that is a theme to all the people in the book except those people who have read them. It is possibly also important to the government. Montag becomes curious about them becuase he used to think that books were just something that they had to get rid of. Now that he has met Clarisse and has seen the woman who read them, he wonders what is so important about the books.

Mon Oct 16, 08:58:00 AM  
Blogger kimmy c said...

One thing that I wanted to throw in was... why is cowardice such a common element in this society, could the books being taken away be symbolism of taking our freedomsa away?

Mon Oct 16, 08:58:00 AM  
Blogger AleeA said...

To add on to what sarah c said, Montag was told that the firehouse was started for the purpose of burning books and things like that, but after he gets sick and Beatty comes and visits him, he is told that they were invented around the civil war. This was a different story from what was said before. How much is the government, or ruling power, hiding from the society?

Mon Oct 16, 08:59:00 AM  
Blogger joshb said...

Yea Alex, the basis of society up to the present day have been books. They have been the primary source of education for so long. Look at major religions. The koran, the bible, and other major religous beleifs are written in books.

Mon Oct 16, 08:59:00 AM  
Blogger elyse h said...

tana~
I think that bradbury was writing about centuries ahead because Beatty mentioned how people acted in the 20th century and then he said centuries later....

Mon Oct 16, 08:59:00 AM  
Blogger Sarah C said...

What do you think about Clarisse's death? Do you think it was an accident, or a setup?

Mon Oct 16, 08:59:00 AM  
Blogger joshb said...

Bradbury was a pretty smart guy!

Mon Oct 16, 09:00:00 AM  
Blogger Phillips said...

I think clarisse's death was probably just more teen violence that she was talking about.

Mon Oct 16, 09:00:00 AM  
Blogger connord said...

Adriana is right. Right now all the technology is a great thing for our society. Kids are learnihng more with laptops and technology such as the internet.

Mon Oct 16, 09:00:00 AM  
Blogger endsleye said...

Sarahc~Im not really sure about Clarisse's death because we don't really know the details about it. We only know that she is dead from Mildred.

Mon Oct 16, 09:00:00 AM  
Blogger shaunam said...

phillips~ why have teens become so violent?

Mon Oct 16, 09:01:00 AM  
Blogger joshb said...

I think that there is a tangled gov plot behing the death of Clarrice

Mon Oct 16, 09:01:00 AM  
Blogger alexm said...

When one thinks about it, technology as actually given people more excuses as to why they haven't come up to standards. Oh my computer crashed...my printer was broken...inernet failure. Back then, there was less work to do, so there was less stress. Wit computers you can multitask very easy, increasing work load...I HATE IT

Mon Oct 16, 09:01:00 AM  
Blogger tanal said...

We don't knkow for sure yet if Clarrise is dead right? I mean everyone thinks she ws hit by a car and killed because no one has seen her ar her family, but do we know for sure if she is dead?

Mon Oct 16, 09:01:00 AM  
Blogger elyse h said...

I think that Bradbury set up Clarisse's death to look like an accident so Clarisse is there just long enough to get Montag to start thinking differently than society, then just takes her away to make Montag find out what he truly wants for himself.

Mon Oct 16, 09:01:00 AM  
Blogger Sarah C said...

Has anyone noticed how many of Bradbury's predictions for the future have come true? He predicted books would become more inferior, today, we are more dependant on technoology than books. He predicted TV would become a huge part of our lives? How many do you think go home and watch TV after school? I know I do/

Mon Oct 16, 09:01:00 AM  
Blogger christa s said...

kimmyc~
Cowardice is so common in this society because the people are just plain scared of getting caught doing something "wrong" and having their houses burned down. They just kinda want to be left alone and not have to think about anything besides the shallow life of the "relatives".

Mon Oct 16, 09:01:00 AM  
Blogger saram said...

sarah c-
i don't really have an answer to your question, but i have a question. what do you think clarisse's significance to the story is? She wasn't in it for very much, and she's already been killed off. What is the big deal with her character?

Mon Oct 16, 09:01:00 AM  
Blogger connord said...

I have no idea what happened to cause clarrise's death, but knowing ow this society works she could have been murdered for a purpose.

Mon Oct 16, 09:01:00 AM  
Blogger AleeA said...

Could Clarisse's death have been a result of her thinking so much, and out of the box. She was obviously challenging the system by not going with the flow like the rest of society, and is it possible that someone found out and wasn't happy with her for it? Was she REALLY hit by a car, and was it accidental?

Mon Oct 16, 09:02:00 AM  
Blogger alexm said...

Im with Josh on Clarisses death...I don't think that it was mere coincidence

Mon Oct 16, 09:02:00 AM  
Blogger shaunam said...

I agree with adrianag and connord because yes, technology could take over us, but that is only if we let it. We can use it in a good way, or a bad way. Plus,

Mon Oct 16, 09:02:00 AM  
Blogger kimmy c said...

sarahc -- To sort of answer your question, right now the book leaves everything up to your imagination. As far as we know she could have jumped in the way of the car, and got hit.

Mon Oct 16, 09:02:00 AM  
Blogger ETAC of LPS said...

How does fear play a role in the passage of unjust laws?

Mon Oct 16, 09:02:00 AM  
Blogger ADRIANA G said...

good point Alex. Maybe technology will just become a mask that we hide behind, and lose oour emotions in.

Mon Oct 16, 09:03:00 AM  
Blogger connord said...

Clarrise is very important because she made Montag "see the light". She made him understand how wrong the society is and how he is unhappy.

Mon Oct 16, 09:03:00 AM  
Blogger HannahJ said...

i find it interesting that this book is banned and it's about banning books. it's kind of a hard concept to think about.

Mon Oct 16, 09:03:00 AM  
Blogger christa s said...

Good point, aleea. Maybe the government had heard about Clarisse and her abnormal way of thinking and observing things and just wanted to get rid of her. Maybe her getting hit by a car wasn't an accident.

Mon Oct 16, 09:03:00 AM  
Blogger Phillips said...

I don't books are less inferior, maybe textbooks, but actual fiction books aren't online, Barnes and noble is a huge chain and they're main thing is books.

Mon Oct 16, 09:03:00 AM  
Blogger KathrynT said...

To saram about the tvs and the books-- I think that maybe not all the people have the tv walls. The people have to pay for them. Maybe the people who have books don't have tvs.

Mon Oct 16, 09:03:00 AM  
Blogger alexm said...

Clarisse is the catalyst that starts everything off...I think Bradbury did the right thing.

Mon Oct 16, 09:04:00 AM  
Blogger endsleye said...

Shaun,
Im not sure why the teens are so violent. Is it because they don't really learn anything. They go to school to watch t.v. and everything. And since t.v. is such a huge a part of their life. So it enfluences them.

Mon Oct 16, 09:04:00 AM  
Blogger shaunam said...

etac of lps~ people make unjust laws because they think that if there is something out there that may not satisfy other people, then there must be a law banning it so that no one can think for themselves, and so that everyone can be "protected."

Mon Oct 16, 09:05:00 AM  
Blogger Sarah C said...

I have another question, how does Beatty know what Montag is feeling? Why is he surprised by Montag not wanting to go to the firehouse? and Does he know about the books in the ventillator grille?

Mon Oct 16, 09:06:00 AM  
Blogger ETAC of LPS said...

Does liberty Conflict with security?

Mon Oct 16, 09:06:00 AM  
Blogger Phillips said...

I think the people have books are all getting old, like in 1984, the people who remeber before the revolution are all dead or dying. So i think all the people who have books are all old and the new generation doesn't have books.

Mon Oct 16, 09:06:00 AM  
Blogger AleeA said...

To get involved in the conversation on the inside of the circle, for how long have books been banned? Isn't it kind of creepy that our book is about banning things from society so that they are limited for thinking for themselves? I know I'm not happy with that bill in Congress wanting to ban blogs from schools...but look at it! People are still reading banned books even though they are banned! They find ways to do it, so what will stop us from accessing blogs at home or other locations other than school?

Mon Oct 16, 09:07:00 AM  
Blogger shaunam said...

Ends~ I see what you are saying, there was a piece on the news about kids who watched that intense cage wrestleing and then they went out to a park and did it and ended up killing eachother. Is this what it has come to?

Mon Oct 16, 09:07:00 AM  
Blogger jess b said...

When you take away any freedom that kids have they are bound to rebel. If you are surrounded by rules and laws and restrictions everywhere you are you begin to want to escape and challenge the system in a bad way to get away from the rules.

Mon Oct 16, 09:07:00 AM  
Blogger endsleye said...

etac of lps,
I think that people make unjust laws because they are afraid of what would happen if there was too much freedom. I think the govt. is afraid if people were able to think more for themselves and have more power.

Mon Oct 16, 09:07:00 AM  
Blogger christa s said...

sarahc~
Maybe Beatty knows how Montag is feeling because he felt the same way once. maybe he once wondered what was in books and maybe read a few.

Mon Oct 16, 09:07:00 AM  
Blogger Sarah C said...

You take away the media when you want to take over a country because the media can manipulate the mind to have people belive what the tabloid says, or the magazine recommends, etc.

Mon Oct 16, 09:08:00 AM  
Blogger alexm said...

ETAC OF LPS: Libery and security are contradictory words...they don't even belong in the same sentence...

Mon Oct 16, 09:08:00 AM  
Blogger shaunam said...

To the inside circle, if we are banning things to protect children, then what are the kids going to do when they grow up and they are all on their own?

Mon Oct 16, 09:08:00 AM  
Blogger AleeA said...

etac of lps: In this case, I don't think that liberty conflicts with security, because we aren't being hurt by having laptops and being able to blog. If we don't abuse blogs, which we don't, we don't have anything to worry about. Blogs are a really cool and effective way to carry out class in locations other than a class room, and I remember a lot more from blogs than just some random discussion in class. Liberty can conflict with security, but not in this case.

Mon Oct 16, 09:09:00 AM  
Blogger kimmy c said...

to go back to V for vendetta, in the movie all of the people are afraid of being caught for doing something wrong,however there are many who don't wish to be oppressed by the government, but they are so controlled by the government that if they tried to ban together, that their efforts would be discovered before they were able to get together and retaliate.

Mon Oct 16, 09:09:00 AM  
Blogger jess b said...

Etac of lps

What do you think about these laws??
Do you believe that they should be passed?

Mon Oct 16, 09:09:00 AM  
Blogger endsleye said...

Shaun~ I agree with you because with t.v. and video games and everything else out there, the things that they show are COOL. well the kids at least think they are cool! and then they are like oh if so and so can do this then I can do it too!

Mon Oct 16, 09:10:00 AM  
Blogger alexm said...

My bad...liberty is spelled l-i-b-e-r-t-y

Mon Oct 16, 09:10:00 AM  
Blogger KathrynT said...

Here is a connection between the book and our fishbowl: the technology s taking over the people and we don't want that to happen. the techonolgy is a tool for us and we can't rely on it. The ability to talk face to face as in a normal discussion is still important. The people in F451 don't interact much with each other and rely on the technology, which is not always reliable.

Mon Oct 16, 09:10:00 AM  
Blogger Sarah C said...

ShaunaM, that is a very interesting comment on the cage wrestling news. It shows that people are easliy manipulated by TV.

Mon Oct 16, 09:10:00 AM  
Blogger christa s said...

To the people who are talking about the government making unjust laws, I think that maybe they are just trying to protect us, but they just don't know the whole story. They might think that on blogs we will put our personal info in it and be suseptible to online predators. What they don't know is how blogs benefit us in the classroom, so they make laws to protect us, but they really might be taking away something very valuable.

Mon Oct 16, 09:10:00 AM  
Blogger briang said...

Thats weird that it would be banned for swearing. That means that other books would be banned souly for swearing. This is how they censor books, like they do TV and music, they just put it on the banned list, so that they dont have to tear apart the content.

Mon Oct 16, 09:10:00 AM  
Blogger alexm said...

In response to Shauna- We won't be able to think anything... What a concept eh?

Mon Oct 16, 09:11:00 AM  
Blogger tanal said...

I think that liberty can conflict with security, because if everyone has all of the freedom then maybe the country wouldn't be as secure. also it is harder to secure everyone and the area if everyone has ewual privledges and freedom. You can't control everyone and people have an option to challenge the system or get their own power.

Mon Oct 16, 09:11:00 AM  
Blogger jess b said...

I wonder what the criteria for banning a book is?
Who bans the books?
Anyone know?

Mon Oct 16, 09:11:00 AM  
Blogger AleeA said...

shaunam: I think that by depriving people of certain things, such as the books, people won't know any better once they grow up, so they will not really change. Life wouldn't be that efficient, but would they really know that? I don't think so, because they've never known any different in the first place.

Mon Oct 16, 09:11:00 AM  
Blogger shaunam said...

etac of lps~ I agree with alexm, that those words do not even belong in the same sentence. People are in control of what they blog. It is just a matter of if or when they will lose control.

Mon Oct 16, 09:11:00 AM  
Blogger elyse h said...

I know that this book was banned for swearing, but could there be another reason for why they banned it?

Mon Oct 16, 09:12:00 AM  
Blogger saram said...

i agree with shauna. It's kind of like the typical scenario when the adults just want to protect their kids. Well, what happens when they grow up and their all on their own and your not there to protect them? They'll be in huge trouble. Why don't adults stop trying to protect us by cutting us off, and start protecting us by preparing us for the future.

Mon Oct 16, 09:13:00 AM  
Blogger shaunam said...

aleea~ I agree with that except for the fact that maybe that "transition" period would be the strangest.

Mon Oct 16, 09:13:00 AM  
Blogger jess b said...

I believe that everyone should be allowed to read and think about whatever you want. I relize that there may be some consequences about from letting some physcos reading the criteria; but, it allows those of us who want to use the books and media for good can and will be able to learn.

Mon Oct 16, 09:14:00 AM  
Blogger AleeA said...

jess b: I think that the criteria for banning a book can vary, but basically it can be anything that offends some group of people in society. It isn't fair to those of us who aren't offeneded, but there will always be those people who aren't happy. We have to honor those people's feelings, sometimes at the expense of our own.

Mon Oct 16, 09:14:00 AM  
Blogger christa s said...

I agree, sara m.

Mon Oct 16, 09:14:00 AM  
Blogger elyse h said...

jess
i think anyone who has a problem with books can ban them. I think alot of parents decided they don't want their kids to read something and find it out there so they try to get rid of it.

Mon Oct 16, 09:14:00 AM  
Blogger alexm said...

Jess- I could ban a book because it conflicts to my beliefs...It wouldnt become famous, but it would still be banned. I could ben Johnny Tremain fro being such a god awful book. Forbes tries hard to make it horrible

Mon Oct 16, 09:14:00 AM  
Blogger kimmy c said...

connecting to the inside circle, the relationship between family members is very thin in f451. They don't spend time together, and they don't even remember when and where they met eachother.

Mon Oct 16, 09:15:00 AM  
Blogger Sarah C said...

Montag is not in love with Mildred, but is Mildred in love with Montag?

Mon Oct 16, 09:16:00 AM  
Blogger tanal said...

I don't think that the people in f451 even know what love actually is.

Mon Oct 16, 09:16:00 AM  
Blogger elyse h said...

I don't understand how they can not remember where they met. Is technology taking over so much that relationship with other people doesn't even matter anymore?

Mon Oct 16, 09:16:00 AM  
Blogger ETAC of LPS said...

jess
100% Liberty is chaos. But 100% Security is prison. SInce we want appropriate measures of BOTH, we must have a process to debate the balance so that the interests of the people and the person are both served.

So, I think we should debate these proposed laws, consider safety for children, but don't trample upon the First Amendment unecessarily.

-Dan Maas

Mon Oct 16, 09:17:00 AM  
Blogger AleeA said...

Why does Montag hide himself from the fact that he doesn't really truly love Mildred? Yes, he has feelings for her, but there isn't that love there. Is he just ashamed that he can't say that he loves her, even though they live together?

Mon Oct 16, 09:17:00 AM  
Blogger Sarah C said...

I think that Carisse knew what it was, and I think that people know what it is but, unlike Clarisse, they do not understand and know it.

Mon Oct 16, 09:17:00 AM  
Blogger christa s said...

kimmyc~
I agree. There is not as much an emphasis on family. Mildred never even wanted children. She is so wrapped up in the lives of her "relatives" that she doesn't even want to deal with having a real family.

Mon Oct 16, 09:17:00 AM  
Blogger Phillips said...

Mildred just thinks that their marriage is normal, that everyone doesn't care about their spouse all that much. That they just live together and see eachother before and after work.

Mon Oct 16, 09:17:00 AM  
Blogger elyse h said...

It doesn't seem like Mildred loves Montag, but then again she doesn't tell on him for having a book.

Mon Oct 16, 09:17:00 AM  
Blogger alexm said...

Tana- I think you are right... Its like in the Giver when Jonas asks his "parents" if they love him. They tell him that there is no such thing as love anymore

Mon Oct 16, 09:17:00 AM  
Blogger shaunam said...

elyseh~ I know! People usually remember that for the rest of their lives. Personally, they seem more like brother and sister rather than marriage because Mildred is more into the parlor and the TV than anything else.

Mon Oct 16, 09:18:00 AM  
Blogger Phillips said...

elyse~ she probably doesn't tell because she was scared of being burned also.

Mon Oct 16, 09:18:00 AM  
Blogger kimmy c said...

sarahc-- montag cares about mildred he doesn't love her... mildred doesn't care about montag.

Mon Oct 16, 09:18:00 AM  
Blogger endsleye said...

Elyse. I agree with you. It was only 10 years ago and they can't remember. My parents have been married for 20 years and could probably tell me every second on the first day they met. And we have computers and cell phones and everything else. They only have the T.V. walls and the ear pieces.

Mon Oct 16, 09:18:00 AM  
Blogger Sarah C said...

I think that Montag hid behind his fake love because he didn't want to face the reality the he wasn't happy. He didn't want to think, but when he stared talking to Clarisse, he started to think and began to realize he couldn't, didn't want to hide behind his fake happiness anymore.

Mon Oct 16, 09:19:00 AM  
Blogger briang said...

elyse, i dont think she would tell on him because if she did, she would be in as deep as he is because they were in their house. Mildred wouldnt tell so she could protect herself i think.

Mon Oct 16, 09:20:00 AM  
Blogger christa s said...

I think that Mildred and Montag seem more like complete strangers. They know barely know or remember anything about each other and they don't have any real love for one another.

Mon Oct 16, 09:20:00 AM  
Blogger alexm said...

etac of LPS-
you are right... if we called them somthing else it might be better. The term 'liberty' has become to subject to conflict, and its been worn out. If we call it something else it might be better.

Mon Oct 16, 09:20:00 AM  
Blogger elyse h said...

Maybe in this society it's too hard for them to love people because they don't want to be sad when people die and people die all the time.

Mon Oct 16, 09:20:00 AM  
Blogger KathrynT said...

alexm-- not anyone can ban a book. I think that you could challenge them though. go to the ala website on challenging books: http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/challengesupport/challengesupport.htm

Mon Oct 16, 09:21:00 AM  
Blogger AleeA said...

I agree with kjerstinl. Mildred is kind of weighing down Montag like the handicapps. Why are women portrayed as such draggs? Is that a good portrayal for the situations on F451?

Mon Oct 16, 09:21:00 AM  
Blogger Sarah C said...

What is te memory that Montag has of Mildred? He says he only remebers Mildred as a little girl in a forest without trees. What is this talking about? What does it mean?

Mon Oct 16, 09:22:00 AM  
Blogger ETAC of LPS said...

alexm
Can you explain how a concept like liberty is worn out, as you've indicated? What does the word mean to you? What images does this word create for you?

-Dan Maas

Mon Oct 16, 09:22:00 AM  
Blogger ETAC of LPS said...

Test

Mon Oct 16, 09:31:00 AM  
Blogger ETAC of LPS said...

Testing again

Mon Oct 16, 12:17:00 PM  
Blogger paigen said...

I have noticed that a lot of people have been asking about the TV Walls and the earpieces. I could be completely wrong but I think the earpieces are so that Mildred is equal to everyone else, kind of like in Harrison Bergearon. Or, they could just be music playing to keep her from thinking about suicide, because she has already tried it. Maybe Mildred is crazy and that is why they gave her the TV walls, to keep her mind off things, the TV walls are just a room where the walls are TVs and it is kind of like an interactive game. I THINK!

Mon Oct 16, 03:36:00 PM  
Blogger paigen said...

I think it is a little suspicious that Clarisse died so suddenly. In a world where things appear to be "perfect", it is a little odd that she would just keel over and die and there would be nothing medically that could be done. I think it was a set up and maybe the hound was involved in it some how.

Mon Oct 16, 03:40:00 PM  
Blogger paigen said...

I think that maybe the government has banned so many books and created so many laws just to protect the people. That is even relevant to today, look at the patriot act, sometimes the government has to violate some people's individual rights to protect the whole nation.

Mon Oct 16, 03:43:00 PM  
Blogger paigen said...

This is a question that I have just been dying to ask, what event kind of event do you think made the human race go crazy? When did they decide to create everyone equal and "change history"?

Mon Oct 16, 03:46:00 PM  
Blogger paigen said...

This is a question that I have just been dying to ask, what event kind of event do you think made the human race go crazy? When did they decide to create everyone equal and "change history"?

Mon Oct 16, 03:46:00 PM  
Blogger paigen said...

Why did the book in the old lady's house make Guy snap? He has stolen a lot of other books and they have not affected him. What is special about this book? Does the old lady or Clarisse play a role in it?

Mon Oct 16, 03:47:00 PM  
Blogger AleeA said...

I agree with a lot that you have said paigen. I'm not really sure what kind of event made the human race snap into this kind of a society, especially since we don't know a whole lot about it yet. Also, I'm not sure why the book in the old lady's house made Guy go kind of crazy. I think that in a way, it might have been built up guilt from the other books he is hiding, with a combination of stress from Mildred and now Clarisse. Life doesn't really seem to be going that well for Guy right now, and after that lady died with her books he just seems really bothered. I also think that he was getting used to being able to talk to Clarisse about things, and now that she has suddenly disappeared from his life he feels kind of helpless and useless. These are just guesses and hunches, but I hope they help!

Mon Oct 16, 04:12:00 PM  
Blogger chelseah said...

I just have one question that i have been wondering about... Are the parlor walls virtual or real? Can Mildred interact with them, or are they just like watching a TV? Do the people like come out of the walls, and interact with them, or how do they work??

Mon Oct 16, 04:55:00 PM  
Blogger adamb said...

Chelseah, I think the parlor walls are interactive because mildred can talk to her relatives through them. I also had a question. If books were banned to prevent conflict, why do the kids kill each other and why is nohing being done or what is being done?

Mon Oct 16, 07:57:00 PM  
Blogger KathrynT said...

etac of lps, To give my veiw on your question for alexm on 'liberty' being wor out, I think that nowadays people don't really understand exactly what it means. It is something that we take for granted in the United States. Many interpret it to mean/ include freedom and was something that our country was founded on. But what is it exactly? I think that that is how it has been 'worn out.' We think of it so often as just freedom or something of the like. Its just something we take for granted in America and we are not even sure of what its full definition. I will try to find that definition and will post it.

Mon Oct 16, 08:38:00 PM  
Blogger KathrynT said...

Definitions of liberty on the Web:

autonomy: immunity from arbitrary exercise of authority: political independence
freedom of choice; "liberty of opinion"; "liberty of worship"; "liberty--perfect liberty--to think or feel or do just as one pleases"; "at liberty to choose whatever occupation one wishes"
personal freedom from servitude or confinement or oppression
shore leave: leave granted to a sailor or naval officer
familiarity: an act of undue intimacy
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Thanks to google! (Search)" define: liberty "

Mon Oct 16, 09:09:00 PM  
Blogger ADRIANA G said...

alexm, that was an interesting point about liberty. Did you mean that it is used so often as an excuse or an argument for your case? Yes, 100% liberty would be anarchy, but the bill reminds me of some comments on censorship. I don't think censorship of any kind is acceptable, and the same goes for blogs.


Some people were asking about the walls and seashells. I think the walls are basically just giant TV screens. I'm not sure if they're interactive. Mildred was talking about the script she got. It sounded like maybe there is just a pause in the show and whoever is watching says the lines on the script. I think that no matter what she says, the show will continue as usual. It just gives the illusion of participating. Maybe it is like the lessons in schools that make people feel like they are thinking when they really aren't. I know this sounds a little juvenile, but if any of you have younger siblings who watched the cartoon Dora the Explorer, you might know what I am talking about. The characters invite viewers to talk or sing along. Of course they can’t hear what you say, but apparently it is fun for small children. Even though Fahrenheit 451 was written much earlier, I find it interesting that Bradbury and modern-day producers both thought that immature minds would enjoy this type of entertainment. As for the seashells, I think they are a type of radio. They play calming sounds like music, whispering, or the ocean. Mildred wears them all the time because she wants to be happy.

Adamb—
Maybe nothing is being done to prevent the deaths because that would be admitting the existence of a problem. As long as everyone else ignores it, ordinary people like Mildred can go on blissfully not caring about the lives of others.

During our discussion today, I realized that in a lot of books, women are the ignorant sheep who only obey. In both 451 and Harrison Bergeron, the wives are the less intelligent characters who don’t try to question the system. In HB, the wife doesn’t seem to think much before she says anything. In 451, Mildred just wants to ignore everything but herself so she can be happy. She is also very whiny. She nags Montag to buy her a new TV wall, even though it would cost a third of his yearly wages. She tells him he should think of her more often. When he is sick, she practically refuses to do anything for him, and seems worried that he won’t be going to work to earn more money for her. In 1984 by George Orwell, it is the young women that are most susceptible to government propaganda. In Animal Farm, another book by Orwell, one of the few main female characters is always just looking for the easy way out, and again, only wants to be happy. What are all these authors trying to say about women? Maybe it’s not actively against women. They could be trying to use women as a symbol of innocence that the government takes advantage of. In the beginning of 451, Clarisse is described as having white skin and a white dress. White often symbolizes innocence, and Clarisse may be one of the most innocent characters.

Mon Oct 16, 11:14:00 PM  
Blogger KathrynT said...

Here's a thought I had: It is ironic that we are reading a book about burning books and how technology is taking over society. We keep thinking that this is bad and that they shouldn't burn the books. But then we have the discussion going on about the Laptops and how we won't need paper and how technology is better. Is technology really better? we now use the laptops more and no longer use much paper at all in class and at the same time are reading and disscussing about how books -- paper-- shouldn't be gotton rid of. What do you think? Does anyone else agree with me on how ironic this is?

Sun Oct 22, 08:26:00 PM  
Blogger Someonewhocares said...

This book whould be burnt! Montag wants to get laid by Clarisse and shes only 17!

Wed Mar 19, 10:19:00 PM  

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