Monday, October 16, 2006

Mr. Murphy's questions

Listening to the discussions, I also had some questions relating to Fahrenheit 451:
Are there circumstances where censorship should be used?

Do the ten major entertainment conglomerates (e.g. AOL/Time Warner, News Corporation, Sony, Walt Disney Co.) domination of the media exert a consistently corrosive effect on journalism and undermine debate, creating a de facto censorship?

Where did Montag’s progression really begin? What cause it to occur the most?

Were there any instances in which Captain Beatty hid an allegiance to freedom of expression?

Continue the conversation...

63 Comments:

Blogger kjerstinl said...

I'll start with the question that I have a better guess at. Montag's progression began from what we as readers can see, from meeting Clarisse. The second he met her, everything was different. It was just her personality, it really attracted Montag and made him want more. Plus, her physical features attracted Montag also. So the more that he talked to Clarisse, the more entangled he became with the whole issue of books.

I believe there are cases that censorship should be used. As we get older, teachers teach us more and more of a variety of things about life, but we start out small. If we read Lord of the Flies to a group of younger kids, thet aren't able to really comprehend the moral behind the story. Instead they could think, "Hey, this is cool, let's go do this." I think that it's more of an issue that we're not ready to handle something. Some of the books have ridiculous reasons for censorship (aka, "Where's Waldo?", etc...) but it can be good for a reason.

To continue the conversation, here's a question: What is Beatty's problem with books. Because if we go by our assumption that people are scared of books, Beatty doesn't seem really scared to me.

Mon Oct 16, 03:10:00 PM  
Blogger christa s said...

I agree with Kjerstinl that Montag's progression began when he met Clarisse. She actually observed things, like the man in the moon and the cinnamon smell of fallen leaves. She actually approached people she didn't know to have a conversation with them, unlike anyone else Montag knew in his society. She made him wonder why the world was the way it was and why he shouldn't be reading books.

I also think that there are some cases in which censorship is necessary. Sometimes certain materials just aren't appropriate in certain settings. For instance, letting books with a lot of sexual content be present for 2nd graders to read in their classroom may not be appropriate, and those kids may not be ready to read or hear some of the things conatined in those books. If their parents believe that they are ready, then they can read it to their kids on their own time, but at school, I just don't think that having complete freedom in what kids can read is appropriate.

Mon Oct 16, 03:48:00 PM  
Blogger EmilyL said...

This is in reply to the question about major media groups and effect they have on good journalism.
I think that since there is an oligopoly on the media, the quality of our journalism goes down to a degree. With there being 4 major companies, Time Warner, News Corp, GE, and Disney, there isn't very many different perspectives. In a way, this does count as censorship because all though the big four aren't stopping smaller companies from operating they dominate the industry some much that is hard for them to get viewers.
If anybody is interested, on the AHS website there is a PowerPoint on the big 4 and what they control. Go teacher web pages, then click on Ms. Crosby. From there select US History 1 Honors. Then select Unit 2. Lastly, click on the media PowerPoint.

Mon Oct 16, 03:50:00 PM  
Blogger AnnaD said...

Censorship, like I said in my last posts on the other blog, is good, but only to a degree. The fact of the matter is that there is little censorship as it is, especially with the onset of the Internet. Certain news stations such as CNN, NBC and ABC all censor certain parts of their broadcasts, but only the parts that aid in their agenda. This is obviously not good because people have a one sided view as a result. In this case I believe that there should be less censorship. However, I still don't think that certain books, movies, etc. should be allowed in certain places, such as the "Build-A-Bomb" book in a school library. As I said before, this is an objective example because there is no debate on what should and should not be put in the school library because, frankly, it is the school's decision to make. This type of censorship is good, if not wholly effective.

Mon Oct 16, 04:01:00 PM  
Blogger AleeA said...

I do think that there are circumstances in which censorship is appropriate, but I also think that there are some where it isn't appropriate. Like kjerstinl said, some books are banned for really stupid reasons, in which it is obvious that people were looking for the bad in the book. There are also books that do contain bad material that is inappropriate however. I think that censorship is appropriate in these situations in which people aren't looking for the bad in something, it just kind of leaps out at them.
I think that Montag's progression was happening way before he met Clarisse, but that it only started to surface after he actually met and talked to her. From what I have read, I do think that Montag was starting to look at things differently a little bit in his mind, but after he met Clarisse and talked to her, she somehow reassured him that it was alright to think outside the box, even if the government said it was wrong. If the government can have rights such as controlling what people think, then why can't people have control over their thoughts also?...oh yes. That doesn't give the government any power to control people...so sad! (I say that with sarcasm.) But back to Montag's progression, I think Clarisse helped him along, but that he was kind of doing it himself before hand anyway.
I know I asked this in class, but could someone sum up this reading for me again? I'm still a little overwhelmed by all that happened during it.Thanks!

Mon Oct 16, 04:25:00 PM  
Blogger chelseah said...

I don't really understand exactly what Mr. Murphy is asking, but for his third question.... I think that Montag's progression really began when he started talking to Clarisse. I think that her outgoing attitude, and knowledge of things "outside the box" are what really started his questioning and imagination. Also, the old lady's persistence to stay with her books and not let them take the books away is what I think really caused his progression to occur the most. I think that both of those people's opinions are what got his wheels turning.

Mon Oct 16, 04:51:00 PM  
Blogger BenH said...

I think the "big four" is more a monopoly than censorship, however that may be one of their effects. Journalists have certain duties that they must adhere to to be proffesional and good journalists. Two of thse are to minimize harm and to educate the people. These have to be very carefully balanced. It is, in a sense, the medias duty to censor themselves, and properly balance how the public should be educated to how much harm that education may cause. That is one reason there is still a lot of debate about the Rodney King beating video even today. Many people say that the public deserved to be educated. But did the video cause harm, such as the LA Riots? Also, there is debate about whether the video was a selective representation of the truth. However it may be, it is important for the media to think carefully about what it publishes. The consequences, though unintended, of a bad story can be catastrophic.

Mon Oct 16, 07:06:00 PM  
Blogger karib said...

We talked about how the big four companies have come to control iver what we see and hear in the media in history. I personaly believe that inly create the effect that censirship has when someone only gets their news from one source. We discused how some comglomerates tend to lean towards one side of the political, and this also sort of acts like censorship on certain issues. I think there are times where censorship might be appropriate, but that is kind of a grey area, and that personal preferance plays a big part.

Mon Oct 16, 07:30:00 PM  
Blogger maria k said...

About the third question, I agree with chelseah in that Clarisse really sparked his progression, but I also think that he started a long time ago. Clarisse said he was different from other firemen, and I think she meant that he is more curious and might actually have some emotion. But I also think that Mildred caused it to occur, because after talking to Clarisse, and coming straight home to a wife commiting suicide really opened his eyes. He suddenly realized that something was indredibly wrong.

Mon Oct 16, 08:03:00 PM  
Blogger shaunam said...

Mr. Murphy~
For your first question, I do think that censorship should be used but only if it is completely necessary. As in one of the post blogs for example, books on how to make bombs should not be in a school library for a means of national security. Also, with all of the school shottings taking place, this kind of censorship is necessary.

I think that Montag's progression began when he met Clarisse because that short experience really had a large effect on his outlook on life.

I think that when Captain Beatty said that if there was a book that offended certain people, to burn/ban it. Every book will in some way effect some one in a negative way. Thus, almost every book will become banned!

Mon Oct 16, 08:06:00 PM  
Blogger adamb said...

Circumstances where censorship should be used? That entirely depends on your viewpoint. I personally think it should only be censored if it is a personal attack or threatens the security of another. But some would disagree about what is threatening or if that should even be censored. In period 2, we talked about that. I don't think that the 10 major media vessels control everything and kill debate because, for one, there are several of them. If there were say two, that would be dull, but since there are ten, it keeps up competition and debate. I also think that since there is still intrest outside of what those corporations say, there are still journalists out there. Like Dan Brown, the author of the Da Vinci Code and Angels and Demons, he came out of nowhere and has generated massive amounts of debate, controversy, interest and fans. He is just one example out of many. Montag's progression started the night he met Clarice. Since that singular night, he started thinking aout things instead of takiing them for granted. In a way it ruined his life. My question is, was he better off as a "drone" where he was happy and content or with his new found freedom that has caused him to fret over problems that used to never be of consequence. Is it like this with all people who hallenge the system? Captain Beatty may have allegiance to freedom, but as we discussed in period 2, all fireman go through a phase of curiosity and maybe that is where he read the books or it could be fire cheifs have special privelidges. In period 2 we talked about both sides of the argument. Maybe the government had given him books to read so he knows what he's burning. They could have given worthless books picked out by the government just for the purpose of convincing the firecheifs that they are about nothing.

Mon Oct 16, 08:12:00 PM  
Blogger shaunam said...

This continues with my response to the first question:

Certain things should be banned like the bomb books in libraries as an example. But, things like (as kjerstinl said) Where's Waldo, Alice in Wonderland and Charlie and the Chocolate Factory should not be banned. No one will ever be satified at the same time with the same things. These books should not be banned since there is very little argument behind these cases, but people now have the power to choose what they want to read.
By banning these books, what exactly are we "protecting" our children from?

Mon Oct 16, 08:13:00 PM  
Blogger hannahs said...

I don't think there are many circumstances where censorship should be used. If you don't like what is being said or done, don't pay attention to it. Just because a group of people disagree with something doesn't mean other people do and if certain aspects of our life, like television and song lyrics are censored, it is like taking away people's freedom of expression. For example, if peolple don't like ir agree with what is on television, maybe they should go and read a book.

Montag's progression began a long time before he met Clarisse. He was already different from other's because although he hid his questions deep, he still wanted to ask the question of why life is the way it is. Clarisse caused it to occur the most because she was different and Montag could relate to her. She brought out the curiosity in Montag. I think Captain Beaty hid an allegiance to freedom of expression when he didn't try to expose the book hidden under Montag's pillow. I think he knew it was there but he didn't try to take the book and burn it.

Mon Oct 16, 08:18:00 PM  
Blogger sarahc said...

Everyone has pretty much answered the third question, but I would like to add something to the discussion on this topic. I think Montag's progression began a long time before he met Clarisse. Clarisse sparks the memory in him of meeting an old man in a park. I think this is the first time he really started thinking about books and questioning the world. We also know that he was collecting books BEFORE he met Clarisse (the ventilator grill is bothering his conscience even before his talk with Clarisse.) But, I also agree with several people who have said that Clarisse moved Guy's progression along the most.

Just to throw something out there:
In 5th period, the question came up of when the government started getting rid of books and why the people went along with it. In class, several people thought that it had been around for a long time. I personally disagree with that point. I think that the change happened suddenly, and not too long before this book was written. I don't think it happened instantly, but I think that there was a major event that caused people in society to want to get rid of books and ideas and feelings. I don't think it happened a long time before Guy Montag's time because if it had, it is more unlikely that so many people would try to hide books. It also struck me that both of the people hiding books mentioned were older, so that implies that they may have know about the old way of the world, and still clung to it.

Mon Oct 16, 09:32:00 PM  
Blogger briang said...

I disagree with most of the previous blogs. I think Montags progression started before he met Clarisse. He had books in the grille before he met her. There were about twenty of them in there. This proves he must have started his own progression some time before he met Clarisse. No doubt is Clarisse a huge impact on his progression and really kicked him into gear, but I believe his progression started sooner.
I believe that censorship should be used in some cases. If something attacks for instance a race, or religion, and effects their people in some way, then i say it should be censored. If it was a book with "naughty" language then I would say it shouldn’t be banned or censored. This is of course based on age and understanding. Older more mature people should be allowed to read those while younger people should not. It is a hard question to answer, I really can't say where the line is drawn between when something should be censored and when something shouldn’t, or even if it should be censored at all.
I think captain Beatty MAY be hiding allegiances to freedom of expression. He does say that every fireman goes through that phase, and that captains get the special treatment and knowledge. I think that the government wanted to give the fire chiefs that special knowledge for two reasons. One, so that they could help the other firemen out going through that phase, like he did with Montag, so that they will understand, and hopefully be satisfied with that information and go back to their normal business. Two, so that the chief knows about their business, its purpose, and why they are doing it. Not to mention, it only makes sense to have the person in charge know the most about what they are doing.
I also agree with adamb that even though those companies dominate the media, because there are 10, there is still room for debate. Debate requires two sides, and its likely that both sides of something would be presented in those 10 companies.

Also, I would just like to say wish me luck on the quiz tomorrow...I'm going to need it.

Mon Oct 16, 10:04:00 PM  
Blogger alexm said...

Im only gonna answer one question, as its all I have time for. I do think that the Big 10 of the media have corrupted the way journalism should be done. 60 MIN is one of the few shows that is still good all the way through. Thanks

Tue Oct 17, 07:10:00 AM  
Blogger connord said...

There are cicumstances in which censorship sould be used. The patriot act is needed now sometimes to try and find terrorism which is good, unless we invade our privacy. Montag's progression began when he met Clarisse and she showed him how to look at things in a different way.

Tue Oct 17, 08:48:00 AM  
Blogger shaunam said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Tue Oct 17, 08:48:00 AM  
Blogger endsleye said...

I think to some point there was instances were censorship should be used. Because I don't want my 2 year old watching Barney and Barney is cussing all over the place. I think the journalism of the 10 major companies have been altered over the years. I think that Montag's progression really began once he realized how much the old women cared about her books and that she burned herself. Also the death of Clarisse and Beatty's speech took him skyrocketing! Captain Beety hid his freedom of experssion when telling Montag that firemen always started fire and never burned them out. Thanks so much for coming and watching our class. I hope we made a difference in our learning.

Tue Oct 17, 08:51:00 AM  
Blogger kjerstinl said...

Mr. Murphy,

Thanks so much for coming! I could ses such a smile on your face as we discussed and I never really realized how amazing our class is. Frankly, I actually liked being watch because I was inspired and I just had so much fun. I hope that seeing us, you realize how our tools help us and how it'd be such a tragedy to lose these amazing tools. Thanks againn for taking your time, just to see our honors english class!

Tue Oct 17, 08:55:00 AM  
Blogger alexm said...

OK, so I need to answer the rest of them, now that I'm at school. No, I'm not sure that censorship is necessary. if something has to be censored, like a stand up comedian, whats the point? Thats the way the story is being told, so why must it be changed? If you don't like it, don't watch it. I already answered the second question. Montag really begins to progress when he meets Clarisse. She shows him the better side of life, what hes missing out on.

Tue Oct 17, 08:56:00 AM  
Blogger chelseah said...

Mr. Murphy~
I just wanted to thank you for taking time out of your day to come and watch us discuss Fahrenheit 451. We all really appreciate it. I hope that it was worth your time, and that you learned something. We really enjoy the fishbowl, and to me it is really helpful to better understand the text. Thanks again for taking time out of your busy day to come and watch our class.
~Chelsea Humbach

Tue Oct 17, 08:57:00 AM  
Blogger Phillips said...

I think Montag had always wondered about boooks in the back of his mind but when he met Clairesse he started to think about them, and question. But I think Clairesse was only a catalyst for the thoughts that were already in the back of his mind, that were slowly coming foward until he talked to her.

Tue Oct 17, 08:59:00 AM  
Blogger briang said...

Mr. Murphy, I would just like to say thanks for coming out yesterday. We really appreciated you attending our class, and we would love to have you come again.

Tue Oct 17, 09:03:00 AM  
Blogger AleeA said...

To add on to what I said last night, I think that the ten major entertainment conglomerates do dominate the media and its effects on journalism. So much is based around our media, which makes it a huge factor in everyday life. I think that a de facto censorship is always possible, for there is never a situation in which everyone is happy with something. I'm not sure if a de facto censorship would occur, but censorships in general would for sure.
We don't really know that much about Captain Beatty yet, but if he is anything like Montag, which this is quite possible, he might have hid an allegiance to freedom of expression. He hinted at this a little bit when he told Montag the true history of firefighters, or what we believe to be true.
Thank you so much for coming into our class and watching us use the laptops. They are a huge part of our class and it was really important to us that you saw why. We appreciate you raking time out of your day to watch us!

Tue Oct 17, 09:04:00 AM  
Blogger adamb said...

Thank you for coming and your questions Mr. Murphy.

Tue Oct 17, 09:06:00 AM  
Blogger tanal said...

Mr. Murphy
I think that Montag's progression really started once he met Clarrise. I think that after talking and walking with her everyday after work, it startet bringing out the emotions and colors in him. She made him remember some of the past and she helped him think of his life, wife, job and surroundings. Before he met her he never had questions and thoughts, but after he met her he started having second thoughts and started asking questions. He gains progression the most when he is on duty at the firestation, or when he is burning books.

Mr. Murphy,
Thank you so much for coming into our english class. I really enjoyed having you in our class for the day and to see what you have to say about the book also.(the blog)I liked seeing what you thought about our class and how you reacted to what we do in here. Thank you again so much for taking time out of you schedule to come into our class for the day. I hope we see you in here again soometime soon.
~Tana LeCavalier

Tue Oct 17, 09:07:00 AM  
Blogger shaunam said...

Mr. Murphy,
I just wanted to say thank you for coming to our class and taking time out of your busy schedule.

Thanks again!

Sincerely,
Shauna Maty

Tue Oct 17, 09:08:00 AM  
Blogger HannahJ said...

ok I can only answer two of the questions...

There are circumstances where censorship should be used. Like in school, some book just aren't appropriate like books about how to make bombs, like Smith posted in a previous blog.

I would say that Montag's progression began when he first met Clarisse, but he had been collecting books for a really long time since he had a bunch of them behind the ventillator grill. So he had probably been having second thoughts about his job and about what was in books and if they had any meaning way before he met Clarisse. She just made him start to think even more and she released whatever thoughts he was holding in.

And thank you, Mr. Murphy, for coming in and watching our class yesterday.

Tue Oct 17, 09:08:00 AM  
Blogger christa s said...

Mr. Murphy:
I just wanted to thank you for coming to our class to observe our Fishbowl and how we are learning in this class. Thank you for your interest in our discussions and for posting this blog for us to continue the discussion!

Tue Oct 17, 09:08:00 AM  
Blogger joshb said...

Mr. Murphy-
Thank you so much or taking the time to come out and visit our class. We understand that you have a very busy schedule and I am extremely grateful that you care about our class enough to come in.

Josh Barry

Tue Oct 17, 09:10:00 AM  
Blogger ADRIANA G said...

I totally disagree with any sort of censorship. It's not the responsibility of the school to censor books from students. If a parent thinks that Harry Potter disagrees with their religion, it is not the school that should be taking the books away. Parents should be the ones to supervise their children. Why should other students be deprived of books because one parent doesn't like them.

Tue Oct 17, 09:11:00 AM  
Blogger Sarah C said...

I think there are some instances in which censorship should be used. But for the most part, I think that censoring books, lyrics,etc. is pointless. For instance, if a TV show says a bad word, it can be censored. This seems pointless to me because people in the real world say bad words all the time. What are they going to do next, censor language as well? I think that people, especially adults, feel they have to protect us from the real world, and what happens in it. However, if they shelter us all our lives how well will we be prepared when we have to go out in the world on our own? We would be unprepared to continue out our lives on our own. This would cause people to remain dependant on elders, and therefore reduce our society to a bunch of insecure, pampered children (from my point of view)!

Mr. Murphy,
thank you so much for coming in to observe our classroom and see what we do. I feel like it is important that people know how amazing having laptops in the classroom is! It is a great opportunity for all of us, and I am thankful that our school was given a chance to use laptops. Once again, thanks so much for coming in, we enjoyed having you!
Sincerely,
Sarah Churchill

Tue Oct 17, 09:13:00 AM  
Blogger jess b said...

I think that censorshp does have a certain line on where it can be used. When it comes to a point where society is threatened then censorship should come into play. Like an example would be the act of terrorism. If harm could come to the community as a whole then it should be used; but otherwise... people should be allowed to do what they want and read what they want. Sometimes reading books that are very real but aren't the exact "fairy tale" book you would expect allow you to relize the dangers the world has.


Thank you soooo much for coming and watching us discuss and show you what it is like to be in a laptop class. I hope that you enjoyed your time here as much as we enjoyed having y ou.

Tue Oct 17, 09:13:00 AM  
Blogger _annaw_ said...

This class is really fun, and I enjoy coming to class everyday and having any information I need at my fingertips.

Tue Oct 17, 09:16:00 AM  
Blogger EmilyH said...

I think that montags progression began with the daisy moment. I think that in order to have his progression he had to go through a regression from his mindless state. He had to slowly get rid of his 'books stink' phase and TV walls are great phase so that he could pregress into a forward thinking, higher level question mode.

Mr. Murphy,
Thanks for coming to class! it did a wonderful job of speeding up our heart rates and gave us a new meaning of the word nervous! I know you have a busy schedule and it meant a lot to us for you to take time out to see our sweet discussion.

Tue Oct 17, 09:18:00 AM  
Blogger paigen said...

I think there are some instances where censorship should be used. I think that in younger grades some books should be banned with material that is innapropriate for them. But in the adult world and even in high school I don't think anything should be censored because by now we should be mature enough to handle that kind of material.
I think Montag's progression really began a while ago, I just think Clarisse really made him think about his progression. What I mean is, he has been collecting books for a while, but when he met Clarisse, the next book he took made him lose it. I think he and Clarisse a going to make a huge difference in the world.

Thank you for coming to our class. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to be at the actual class becuase I was out of town, but because I had access to a computer, I was still able to live blog with the class. That is truely amazing.

Tue Oct 17, 09:19:00 AM  
Blogger _annaw_ said...

woah...wrong post...here is my post for this blog:

About Montag's progression, I think that, along with many others, Clarisse was the main catalyst. Then comes the lady he burns, and taking books. It all leads to him reading them.

Thank you for coming, Mr. Murphy, and I hope you let the laptops stay!

Tue Oct 17, 09:19:00 AM  
Blogger saram said...

Mr. Murphy-
Thank you so much for coming to our class. We really enjoyed having you. The laptops are such an amazing thing to have in the classroom and I think that other classes should get the privilege too. Also, our fishbowls are always a lot of fun and help us understand the text more. We are all so glad that you could be a part of it and I hope you can come again and participate in another one of our fishbowls. Thanks again.

~Sara Markisohn

Tue Oct 17, 09:20:00 AM  
Blogger kimmy c said...

To me there aren't times where there shold be censorsip, besides letting the reader know or the movie goer, or the tv watcher, that the material in the following movie, book, or show is inappropriate for whatever audience as well as why.

I think that Montag's progression really began when he started to not see clarisse. He started to worry, and then he kept thinking about the thoughts that she had laid upon him when he did talk to her.

there were instances were captain beatty hid an allegiance to freedom, such as when he had said that it was alright for firemen to take a book home here or there, as long as it was burned in 24 hours.

Mr.Murphy,

I just wanted to perssonally thank you for taking time out of your schedule to come and visit our class, I am happy to know that you enjoyed your time here, and that you even decided to give us awesome questions to answer.

THANK YOU!!
Kim C.

Tue Oct 17, 09:20:00 AM  
Blogger elyse h said...

I think that sometimes censorship can be useful at times but i agree with Jess that there is a deffinite line that must be drawn. No matter what measures you take to get rid or cover up something you don't like, there is always a way to uncover it. You can't always cover up other people's actions. A lot of times censorship just causes more rebellion.

Montag's progression seems to begin when he meets Clarisse. She brings up real issues that actually matter which causes him to think. The government seems to be more afraid of opinions than the actual books. The government in this society doesn't want people to think for themselves because then everybody won't be the same anymore.

Tue Oct 17, 09:20:00 AM  
Blogger KathrynT said...

I think there are some cases in which censorship should be used. sometimes the language isn't that favorable and is sometimes offensive. Other times it is just fine and isn't really that big of a deal.

Tue Oct 17, 09:28:00 AM  
Blogger TyC said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Tue Oct 17, 10:18:00 AM  
Blogger Aylar said...

On the question of censorship I believe that there are instances in which IT SHOULD be practiced, in instances where offensive language or gestures are used. But this should be taken in context, people have the freedom and right to do what they want. Sometimes they make bad decisions but they have the right to think.

Tue Oct 17, 12:32:00 PM  
Blogger tomr said...

I think that censorship is not necessary, as what is "profane" and "dirty" varies from person to person. Honestly, who are we to judge what is "offensive"? As I said a couple weeks ago, SOMEONE will be offended by anything. You can't please everyone, so why try? In Fahrenheit 451, the complete banishment of books took place because there were so many minorities, and they tried not to offend every little group with their own agenda.

Montag's progression, as many have said, began when he met with Clarisse. She catalysed his way of thinking and nursed the latent rebellion that lay within him.

Beatty did hide allegiances to freedom of expression; I noted when they were burning the old lady's books he made a reference to the Tower of Babel, of course, from the Bible. And I can only assume that is banned as all other books are.

Tue Oct 17, 12:40:00 PM  
Blogger erinl said...

I think that censorship should be practiced where there is any topic that should only be heard by adults. My little sisters who are seven, constantly ask questions on topics that even I do not understand. I think that the news should show happier events instead of all the badness in our world today. Everyone has a freedom of speach but, I don't think we have the freedom to scare people.

Tue Oct 17, 12:43:00 PM  
Blogger BenH said...

First of all, phillips, I think that your picture is fantastic.

Overall, I think that censorship is the responsibility of the family, not the government. However, I do think it is also the establishments choice to choose what they put out. It should be up to a bookstore or library what books they carry. But it is wrong for the government to say that they cannot.

I think censorship limits mankinds basic rights to freedom of speech and freedom of thought.

Tue Oct 17, 12:44:00 PM  
Blogger Zachf said...

I believe all people have the right to express themselves so they should not be censored when given the opportunity to say something they feel. When vulgar words and/or gestures are used when expressing these thoughts I believe it is up to media outlets to choose whether or not to censor them. Personally, I'm not offended by what people say whether they use vulgarities or not, at the end of the day it is there thought and they should not be silenced.

Tue Oct 17, 12:44:00 PM  
Blogger Lane C. said...

Thank you for asking questions Mr. Murphy. I think that there are some instances when censorship should be used. However, not very many come to mind. The only situations I can think of are ones where national security or the security of an important person is at stake. Then it would beneficial for everyone not just the government. The problem is when does that turn from good to bad? It seems like it would be pretty easy to overdo it.
The other one I would like to answer is the one about Beatty. I think that he is definitely an advocate for free expression but maybe doesn't want to be. It seems to me like he could be using the job of fireman to get close to books, to have an ability to read them. I don't think he wants them legal though. I think that he thinks the community doesn't have the ability to understand them and that only certain people do so he reads them but stops other from doing the same.

Tue Oct 17, 12:45:00 PM  
Blogger BenH said...

I have to respectfully disagree with those that said offensive language should be censored. If you are offended by that language, it is well within your rights to stay away from it. However, I am not, and I think I should have the freedom to choose what I hear. Just because one person doesnt like something doesnt mean they should take it away from other people.

Tue Oct 17, 12:46:00 PM  
Blogger danh said...

I think that Captain Beatty hid his allegience when he said that they let curious firemen keep books they have for one day. Reading books is expressing that you think it is ok. If the firestation didn't want people to have freedom of expression, they wouldn't let people keep books for even one day.

Tue Oct 17, 12:50:00 PM  
Blogger Mphair said...

Mr. Murphy:

Are there circumstances where censorship should be used?

There may be times when censorship is a prophit to soecity. However, I do not know of any off the top of my head and I have not yet encountered such a case. I personally believe that it is constitutional (looking at the first ammendment) to completely bann a book, yet that may be just my interpreation of the Constitution, as the courts have not spicifically spoken out against the banning of books.

However, I don't believe that it is fair if we overlook the fact that in Fahrenheit 451 it was the PEOPLE who decided that they didn't want books, that they didn't want to think or to have ideas. In this case, it was a people-imposed censorship.

Tue Oct 17, 12:51:00 PM  
Blogger Madisonm said...

I think that a large portion of Montag's progression began when he met and spoke with Clarisse for the first time. She seemed to be opening up his mind to new ideas and to thinking. However, for some reason, I tend to think that Montag's progression may have even started before the book even picked up. I think that something had caused him to think and have his own ideas...I think that he probably had emotions and that he had been moved by instances in his life before he had met Clarisse---after all, it appears that Montag had all of those books before he met Clarisse. And why would he have all of those books hidden away in his home if something hadnt of driven him to do so?

Tue Oct 17, 12:52:00 PM  
Blogger Rileys said...

There are some circumstances where some objects should be sensored to protect children of the people. But when that gets out of hand, and the government starts to limit the people's ability to learn and think by themself than that should not be legal. otherwise, if the safety of the people is endangered by sources of how to build bombs in easy to access books, than that should be banned and censored. But most of the free reading books that are on the banned reading list do not endanger the thoughts or physical ability of students in the school. Which makes it my opinion that these books should be available to anyone and their parents should limit what they do not want their children to learn.

Tue Oct 17, 12:56:00 PM  
Blogger EmilyA said...

I believe Montag's progression in thinking by himself really began after he was called to burn books for a lady and the lady decided to stay with her books and she was the one who actually set everything on fire with her match. After this he really started to think about his work and if it was the right thing he should be doing. He began to think about reading books and he began to want to read books!

Tue Oct 17, 01:04:00 PM  
Blogger lauraf said...

I think that Montag's progression of change and thinking by himself began when he first became a firfighter. Although we do not know what happened from that point until now in the book, we know that he always knew that he was going to become one--he said because his father and grandfather were both firemen. Although he might not of changed his thoughts about his job, all the burning of books and waching peoples' lives destroyed slowly affected his conscience through the years. In the book, we see that ever since he met Clarisse, he made a definite change, but I think that she just sparked the flame to make him change his ways, but his job tried to close his eyes, but actually did rather the opposite and saw his unhappiness, and wanted a change.

Tue Oct 17, 01:06:00 PM  
Blogger TyC said...

Dear Mr. Murphy,
I have not read anything so far in Farenheit 451 that should be censored. I don't think that books need to be censored at all, in fact. First of all, you read books slowly enough that you can tell when something is happening that you do not agree with or you think is inappropriate. You can just close the book or skip that certain passage. This is different than with movies, because unless you have a script, you have no way of telling what is going to happen. Another thing with books is that there are no images, so there is nothing bad to see. I think books are easy enough to censor by yourself, that there is no point in censoring them.

Tue Oct 17, 01:06:00 PM  
Blogger Laurab said...

i agree with most people that there are specific circumstances when certain materials should be censored. I also completely agree with tomr about what should be censored. While someone might think that they know what is best for everyone, different things are offensive to different people. We can't fairly control people completely, so why try? Although, there comes a point when certain materials should be banned for the sake of decency. For example, children are today, for the most part, protected from seeing and hearing certain things, like violent movies or bad language. They will learn with time and become mature enough to handle things like those. But of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinions and actions, so they may view those materials if they want.

I think that today, the media does not dominate the media world completely. Of course, they do have a say in what is put on the Internet, TV, and movies. But, they don't completely control it. People still have the resources to find information for themselves, not necessarily using the major media moguls. (Say that three times fast). You still have a choice on what to watch or read.

That is all. Sorry it is such a long post.

Laura

Tue Oct 17, 01:06:00 PM  
Blogger kenna_d said...

There are definitely circumstances where censorship should be used. Obviously, you cannot put something visaully inapropriate on a channel like Nick Jr. It is not good for little kids to be exposed to these kinds of situations.

Yes, they do. They own everything that gets the media out to people. They have a major effect on society because the media has a major effect.

I agree with Elyse, it seems that the core to the beginning of his progression started with Calrisse. She opened up a whole new world to him. Every time he sees her, she shows him new ways to think, and question the world around him.

Yes, he seems to have retained a lot of information from the books that he so readily burns.

Tue Oct 17, 01:07:00 PM  
Blogger BenH said...

kenna_d: Who defines visually inapropriate? Are they intrinsically bad, or has society just made them unacceptable? What harm might come to kids, and what are you standards of what is visually inappropriate.

Tue Oct 17, 01:10:00 PM  
Blogger JoanneH said...

Censorship is the examination of an article or other material in order to prevent objectional information from reaching the public.

In answer to the second question, and based on this definition of censoring, I don't think there is any censoring per say done by the movie companies mentioned. They present a view based, as we are studying in History, on the victor's perspective as well as marketing. For example, nobody would want to watch Pocahontas if John Smith was realistic (ugly). They tell half truths, but they don’t go over the material and refuse to film the other half because it’s “objectional.”

I think that, while consequences should be imposed, there is no situation where censorship is necessary. Is it actually just a power issue? The censor needing to feel a sense of power over somebody else? Maybe that’s why other people say that censorship is necessary.

Tue Oct 17, 01:11:00 PM  
Blogger lindseyc said...

I think Montag's progression first started when he met Clarisse on his way home, but then really picked up when he saw her the econd time, in the rain. He seemed to be more open to what she was saying the second time because he had already spoke with her before and knew her "odd" ways. This is because we find out, form Clarisse, that Montag is different. He is not normal in this society, even though he believes he is. She totally changes his view on himself and the world. It also might have started before the book even started because we find out about the books sin his ventilator and they were in there for quite some time and obviously before he lit that house on fire, so why does he not show it. Are there some instances in the book before Clarisse where Montag shows his individuality

Tue Oct 17, 01:11:00 PM  
Blogger ADRIANA G said...

I'd like to thank Mr.Murphy for coming in to watch our class. I really appreciate that you took the time to come and see our education in action. I also like that you continued our discussion outside of class. I would enjoy hearing some of you opinions on the questions you posted and other ideas about the book. Thank you.

Tue Oct 17, 07:44:00 PM  

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