Wednesday, April 11, 2007

5th hour The Discussion Continues…

Michelle's blogger was not working so I am posting it for her.

What is the significance of the unconscious in 1984? (Such as Winston writing "Down with Big Brother," walking back to the Junk shop, and thought crimes). How also does this lead to and show Winston Smith's changing political beliefs?

Period 5 Discussion 69-117

EmilyL, MichelleP, SarahC

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Blogger TomR said...

Unconsciousness in 1984 represents the hidden ideas that lay dormant within many people in society---the nagging feeling that something isn't quite right with the world, but is often suppressed by superficial actions. Winston's thoughts have simply risen to the surface, which changes his view of the world and, naturally, his political views as well. Thoughtcrimes are an awakening of a person's true feelings through an involuntary action.

Wed Apr 11, 04:31:00 PM  
Blogger EmilyL said...

To me the unconscious actions represent the true leanings of the person involved. So if someone committed though crime without trying to, it would represent that person is not fond of Big Brother.

Wed Apr 11, 04:53:00 PM  
Blogger Shelby B. said...

Unconsciousness is like Tom said ideas that are dormant, they are the ideas they are not allowed to share they are to be kept a secret or hidden. Winston writing "Down with Big Brother" I think makes him more aware that he does not agree with the society and maybe what he is "believing" now is not really something he agrees with. I think that he is more aware of what is going on now and is questioning Big Brother, especially by going into the Proles village and not really caring what happens and just thinking to himself 'if they catch me it is okay I will just lie to them and hope to get away with it. In the end I think that he will completely change the way he looks at the society and start to rebel with the help, possibly from the brown-haired girl.

Wed Apr 11, 04:58:00 PM  
Blogger BenH said...

I think that unconsciousness represents the animalistic part of us that wants rebellion. for example, writing down with big brother is an expression of his need for independence from the system. It is not a need he has based in logical thought, but something he has felt in the unconscious center of his brain. It is an animal instinct.

Wed Apr 11, 04:58:00 PM  
Blogger erinl said...

I think that unconsciousness obviously shows that they have thought without realizing. I'm not really sure what it represents but i think that it has a really big impact on all the people who are completely brainwashed. I do have to agree with ben in that it could be a suddle message of rebellion. The people just need to realize what their "guts" are telling them to do.

Wed Apr 11, 05:17:00 PM  
Blogger Aylar said...

In my opinion the unconscious in 1984 is the feeling that life has never been and will never be right. Winston has always felt this, however he squashed his feelings because he seemed "happy" of course he really was not. The party seems to confuse people with this idea a happyness, they say that your happy so you think that of course they are right. But take a moment to qestion this and chances are that happyness realy doesn't exist on aristrip one.

Wed Apr 11, 06:04:00 PM  
Blogger AnnaD said...

Here's a general definition of "subconscious," just for the general well-being of our discussion:

"Subconscious mind is the sum total of our past experiences. What we feel, think, or do forms the basis of our experience."

Basically it's saying that the subconscious is formed by one's experiences throughout life. Winston, I believe, was one of a generation that tasted freedom, even if for just a moment. Even though he has been held back and dominated during the rest of his life, he still understands that there is something beyond Ingsoc. This is a concept that younger people are unable to grasp.

This knowledge of a "better" life makes Winston's unconscious force him into doing the things he does. Though Winston tries to supress the thoughts at first, he later decides to allow them to come. This shows that he is finally able to accept what his subconscious has been wanting and consider the world away from Ingsoc.

Sorry for the long post, everyone! See you all tomorrow!

Wed Apr 11, 06:48:00 PM  
Blogger zachf said...

The significance of the unconcious in 1984 symbolizes how emotions are taking over Winston Smith's body. His thoughts are controlling what he does because most of what he does involuntarily are small acts of rebellion. If he had any control over what he was doing he would not being doing all of these things such as writing "Down with Big Brother," in his journal. These acts show that Winston is not happy with the current political system and wants change no matter how much he tries to control what he's doing.

Wed Apr 11, 07:16:00 PM  
Blogger BenH said...

I agree with zachf. I think it shows that Winston is beggining to lose logic to emotion. This is interesting, because we can see him make some very good logical thoughts as well. I think his balance between logic and emotion will continue to shift.

Wed Apr 11, 07:58:00 PM  
Blogger TyC said...

I can compare Winston's unconsciousness to what we are doing our semester projects on: the true instincts of man. Although Winston's thoughts may have been elseware, he still wrote "Down with Big Brother." Then, when he was walking, his subconsciousness led him back to the junk store. Even though Winston works for the government, his intincts are telling him to rebel.

Wed Apr 11, 08:06:00 PM  
Blogger hannahs said...

I understand what everyone has said so far, however, I believe the significance of the unconsious represents the power The Party and Big Brother have over its "followers". When we are unconscious we are still alive and still have brain activity. The people of The Party are very much alive and have brians and the ability to use them. However, they still go along with Big Brother's ideas and believe they have no control over their lives. When we are unconscious we don't really have control over what we do (whether or not we do anything phyical). This relates to Winston's changing political beliefs because he is waking up from his "unconcious" state and taking a stance. Whether or not Big Brother's rule is bad, Winston is tired of being controlled by it.

Wed Apr 11, 08:29:00 PM  
Blogger karib said...

I think the theme of unconsciousness relates directly to the way in which their society functions. The citizens are completely unconscious of how regulated their lives are and how they don't realize that their lives aren't meaningful. I think the unconsciousness that Winston shows while walking home from the junk shop is just a product of his upbringing. I think the government views unconsciousness as a positive because it takes away the ability to think, which it could very possibly view as dangerous. If people are not thinking at all, then they certainly are not plotting to overthrow the government. I don't think that unconsciousness really has anyhing to do with his political views, but rather I think it shows him graduating from the constant fear of being vaporized. I think that it shows that he is not beginning to care as much as he previously had. Finally, I think it displays Winston's realization that their government is only a superficial government, as there are things that a certain individual cannot control, much less the government.

Wed Apr 11, 08:40:00 PM  
Blogger Mphair said...

I believe that most every member of the Party has issues with his/her subconsiousness. It mentions sometime that often people mutter "Down with Big Brother" in their sleep, and are then convicted of Thought Crime, without them ever conciously thinking against Big Brother.

I like aylar's point, in that the subconsiousness shows how they know that things have not always been this way, and that things had ONCE been better.

Wed Apr 11, 08:47:00 PM  
Blogger lauraf said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

Wed Apr 11, 08:58:00 PM  
Blogger lauraf said...

I think the unconcious thoughts of Winston illustrate how all of his memory and ideas are not controlled or brain-washed by the Party. At some level, he continues to think for himself. I also think that it is a sign that Winston is beginning to remember the reason events occur not just the how. Although the how is the first part of memory and thinking, once Winston can manage that, he will be able to think of the why. This is exactly what the Party fears in the citizens and why they are so controlling and monitor so closely with the telescreens.

Wed Apr 11, 08:58:00 PM  
Blogger lindsey c said...

The unconscienceness of 1984 represents that you can think and not even be aware that you are doing it. In this book, this might be a loophole; how can you be accused of thought crime if you did not even not you commited it? If you dont realize that you are thining, then will the Thought Police know you are.
This could lead to Winstons changing political beliefs because he finally realizes that you can not trust Big Brother and it is possible to think for yourself.

Wed Apr 11, 09:02:00 PM  
Blogger emilya said...

The unconscious actions in 1984 signify a greater desire to do what you want rather than follow the government. It shows what they truly care about deep in their heart and what is really on their mind...

Being unconscious leads Winston into changing his beliefs because he thinks different from the way he is suppose to think. He challenges the system and thinks of what would happen if he didn't follow the rules in the society. I also agree with lindseyc in how this may lead to a loss of trust for Big Brother and going against him and thinking for themselves.

Wed Apr 11, 09:28:00 PM  
Blogger danh said...

I think it emphasizes the fact that many good or important things happen in life when you're not paying attention. For instance, Winston knew in his dreams that O'Brien is on his side. Also, as stated before, he wrote "Down with Big Brother" unintentionally. Much of the time alone in the society of 1984 is when you are unconscious, or asleep, and that is when you learn to organize your thoughs and think without influence from the party.

Wed Apr 11, 10:34:00 PM  
Blogger maddyg said...

The significance of his unconcious is that it shows that people, even brainwashed people have instincts of rebellion. History is full of this rebellion, like the sixties. The same thing also happened in Fahrenheight 451. In our fishbowls, we have talked about how the new youth know nothing but the Party and won't rebel, but I think that this shows that they may have an instinct that automatically might make them want to rebel.

Thu Apr 12, 08:35:00 AM  
Blogger Lane C. said...

I really like what Dan said. I would also say that the most important things can happen in our subconcious. I also think that it is important to understand that the concious part of Winston's mind would never let him do most of these things because his survival is an instinct. His subconcious, however, will sometimes do the things he won't do purposefully. It helps him to realize that everyone is not hopeless, that on the subconcious level everyone is still free because there is no way to stop it.

Thu Apr 12, 08:35:00 AM  
Blogger maria k said...

Lane, I like what you said about the subconscious being our survival instinct. So like when he wrote "Down With Big Brother" unintentionally, it was that small survivor instinct taking over. He knew deep down that he wouldn't survive too long under Big Bro's rule.

Also, orthodoxy is unconsciousness. So basicly what the government wants to do is make your subconscious (that survival instinct part) unconscious.

Sun Apr 15, 08:40:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think that the unconciousness is representative of how the comrades follow Big Brother fully without ever questioning. Their 'orthodoxy' would be following everything they are told. I think that Winston shows how he is coming out of unconciousness by questioning the government and his job. He demonstates that there is more to society than just doing everything you are told. Society should be expressing what you feel and working together to make things better, for everyone. The unconciousness is the exact opposite--no one does anything for anyone's benefit, other than Big Brother's.

Tue Apr 17, 01:00:00 PM  
Blogger Laurab said...

I think that the unconsiousness of the people shows how controlled they are. The Party controlls the people's thoughts and actions, and when the people finally realize what life could be like without the Party, their reactions become extreme and sometimes violent.

Wed Apr 25, 09:59:00 AM  

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