Reflecting back
Review the transcripts of the conversation from the fishbowl today and compare them to our previous fishbowls. Are we getting to where we want with the inner and outer circles? Are we achieving our fishbowl goals? Are you still feeling the same way about Skype versus Blogger? What changes do we still need to make? Let me know your thoughts and please remember to react to one another's comments and suggestions.
Period 2 Group 1
Period 2 Group 2
Period 5 Group 1
Period 5 Group 2
posted by annes @ 11:16 AM
37 Comments:
Today was so much better of a discussion. At least, that's what I think. All I know is that in group 1, we had our heated discussions which got quite deep.
I think that we are starting to get more people from the outer circle inside, but we're going to need a about a time or two more to really get used to skyping and paying attention inside. The inner circle is doing well, I was listening a few times and everything changed from one to another and there were plenty of connections.
I think that we are achieving our fishbowl goals. In my group at least, we got deep, we asked many questions, we had long responses, we answered one another, we used complete sentences. I felt really good after this discussion today, I had an accomplished feeling.
Skype vs. Blogger: The thing about skype is that I do have the time (oddly enough) to read people's comments and type my own response. I think for me, I've just grown to instant messaging and stuff that thinking fast has somewhat become a habit. We've adapted to skype and had deep thoughts. Plus, my group stayed surprisingly on topic.
Changes that we still need to make are little. I think that we still need to spend more time on a topic and go into detail with our answers. Go beyond normalcy, think outside the box. With that, discussions will continue throughout the period. I think some of us have forgotten about connections. Connections, I've found out, can start a huge conversation and bring up many questions.
I felt that our fishbowl today was not as good as the last one. I was in the outer circle, and the questions were good, but I think I just couldn't expand my ideas very well. Also, our inner circle conversation was a little scattered. That is the hard part about fishbowling, because we all have great ideas and thoughts we want to get in. However, the amount of time we have to do that is limited, so we have to find a place to incorporate our ideas, even if it isn't the best place. It is hard to connect all of our thoughts back to the book, and I found myself adding my thoughts to the conversation, even though they didn't relate to our current topic. Another difficulty I came across on the outer circle was that I ran out of thoughts. After talking about one topic for a while, I couldn't really take my thoughts any farther. If our groups discussion slowed down, we would change the question, which was very helpful. Finally, I had a question about the outer circle. I was wondering if it is okay to give full attention to the inner circle's discussion for a while, and then return to skype? I was just curious, because I did that a couple times during our fishbowl today, and I wanted to know if that is okay. I understand that part of the outer cicle is multi-tasking, so that is why I asked.
I think that the fishbowl went a lot better today. Like Alee said, I think everyone followed the guidelines that we set down for Skype and everyone was asking permission to change the subject, stayed on topic pretty well, didn't use emoticons, and typed complete sentences, which helped the discussion flow more smoothly. I was in Group 1, and the points and connections that everyone brought up were really good and brought up things I hadn't really thought about before. I also took Ms. Smith's advice and just sat and read everyone else's comments and collected my thoughts before I responded, and I felt like I made a better contribution to the discussion than I would have otherwise.
I am beginning to like Skype more now because of its speed and how I can keep up with the conversation better than on Blogger, and I think that now we are all getting the hang of it and its working really well.
I am in period 5, and I was in group 2. It seemed like for some reason, everyone was a little off topic. I do not know if it was because it is late in the week, or if it was just that no one was in to the reading. It was hard for the people that were trying to focus to have an in-depth conversation, because a lot of useless comments kept coming up. Hopefully, the next time we have a dicussion, we will have a better conversation and learn more about the book.
Hannah, Skype is no longer graded for period 5, so I think it would not matter if you ignored Skype for a bit, and focused on the inner circle. On the contrary, focusing on the inner circle would allow you to make more insightful connections to ideas the inner circle mentioned in Skype.
As a presenter in today's fishbowl, I noticed two things. The first is that the open chairs pretty much remained stagnant. There was little getting up and changing. The outer circle did not seem to want to come in. The second thing is I noticed is that fishbowl seems to be losing a bit of it newness and glimmer. Plainly speaking some people just seem fishbowled (is that a verb?) out. The comments are getting less insightful and less people are participating. I am not quite sure what the solution is. Maybe we could try fishbowling once every eight chapters, so that there would be more to discuss; and the fishbowl would be less humdrum.
As for Skype vs. Blogger I personally, don't care either way. To me the tool we use doesn't matter as much as the quality of conversation that comes from it.
hannah~ yeah, it's totally fine to switch between the two, your comments are always so good, feel free to jump into whatever you'd like!
As for Skype today...AHHHH!!! We definitely got pretty off topic (where did the nose picking thing come from anyway?) and I feel bad because it took time away from a good discussion. But also, I think that because Skype went so fast, we ran out of topics, even though we shouldn't have because there is way too much out there to talk about. huh. I know that sounds complicated, but I think we can learn from our mistakes today and use some higher level thinking next time. Also, it was only our second time and I think that once we get the hang of Skype, our discussions could live up to their amazing potential. :)
One more thing. I like Skype better than Blogger, but as EmilyL said, we need to use the tool that gives good quality convos. Let's give it a few more rounds before deciding which one is really better.
I still think that skype is better. Today went much better, I think that having gotten over after the first try has helped get us to more utilize the technology. The topic function was definitely used better. However when we the group decided to change the topic, about three people would change it at the same time. So there are still some more problems to get worked out. However, my opinion of skype working better is still the same.
Skype seemed very forced upon us to me. I also am not sure that IMing (in a way) was the best way to create a favorable image to important people. I am in no way insulting the laptops, I think they're wonderful. Also, our conversations seemed fake, as if they were not what we really meant. The book we're reading doesn't help. A skype about F451 would be much more fun. I don't think that much change is necessary yet. Today was obviously an improvement over Monday, possibly by the advisors breathing down our necks. We are achieving our goal, I think, in a way, but these later live blogging and Skypes have seemed more like a way to get the school more laptops, rather than actually learning. The questions 'asked' were lame, just ask anyone. Again, this I believe because the book is lame. I know you might get mad at me for saying these things, Ms. Smith, but I want to remind you that the theme this semester is "Challenging the System". And to me, and for several unnamed others, you ARE the system. So in a way, I hope you get mad.
Thank you.
I agree with Tom. We need to bring back the Aquarium style. I think that we were able to accomplish a lot, though. We were able to have very detailed, in-depth discussions today, but we were still relaxed and laid back. I don't think that we were too off topic at any point in time in the inner or outer circle, and if even we were, we still got what we needed to get done. As long as we are able to do that, I don't see anything wrong with the way we discussed. That's one of the parts of the class that I love: we can have fun and be ourselves while still accomplishing what we need to. So, I don't think that there was anything wrong with the conversations today, and I think that we had a wonderful discussion.
I think personally that the more formal (for lack of a better word) format of blogger inspires a little bit more seriousness to the whole thing. Sure, Skype works, but it is TOO much like instant messaging. I was only in the inner circle today, so I had no idea what was going on concerning that really.
Some will totally dissagree with me on this, and I accept it, but I still strongly believe that blogger is better for the "live blogging" because it gives one the sense that they have more time, so they can make it a stronger and deeper comment. Because Skype moves so fast, I personally feel rushed and so I don't put as much time and thought into my comments as I should.
I have definately enjoyed the use of Skype, but Period 5 got WaY OFF TOPIC today! I felt kind of sad and extremely guilty, because we have the knowledge and the brainpower to accomplish much higher level thinking. Hopefully our next fishbowl will have more excellent content and better Q &A's. Otherwise I enjoy Sype much more then blogger and hope to use it in the future.
Maria: I totaly agree with you when you said that we should keep our minds open and still consider blogger as a great option for fishbowl before we decide that SKYPE is really better.
I agree with Emily, Maria, Zach, and Ty. Our conversations today really lacked the depth that they have had in the past, and no one seemed interested. The open chairs remained pretty much unchanged. Maybe this was because no one thought the conversations in the inner circle were worth their comments. Same with the outer circle. The conversations didn't really expand our understanding at all. We seemed to be basically repeating everything we have said in past discussions about challenging the system. It didn't seem like we were exploring uncharted territory in any way. That might be why the conversations didn't get anywhere. We had already discussed those topics and were being repetitive in our comments. We just had nothing to say. We don't have any huge mind blowing thoughts about the reading, just yet. Maybe we need a little push to get us excited and interested. Like Zach said, our answers were really to the point and there wasn't much room for improvement, in our minds. We just say what we want and that's it. It also might have just been an off day for the Skype "hype", but whatever it was,we just weren't into Skype that much.
Another note. I think that the laptops might be taking away from the conversation depth level, in a sense. Close to the end of class, I put my laptop away and wanted to listen to some of the conversation going on in the inner circle. I found it to be lacking some of the fluorescent lightbulbs that have been going off in the past when we have had discussions where we really get the conversation going. I noticed that with Skype, I didn't have the chance to listen to the inner circle as much, I was more absorbed with Skype. The computers actually hindered our learning,(there's a first for everything). We aren't getting our points across as efficiently as we used to. I agree with Anna and Tom, we probably should go back to Aquarium. Or the one type of discussion where there were two separate groups who had their own discussions, without using the computers as much. That was better because we could talk to eachother more and really get our point across better than with more of an instant reponse, we have more time to formulate an intelligent response. And it is nice to hear a person's voice behind the ideas once in a while.
Overall, sorry, this was a long one... Skype isn't really helping us. Sure, it is fun to have something like IM to help us learn, but is it really helping? There comes a time where a line needs to be drawn separating neccesity and want. Even though we do live in the 21st century, and computers fill our everyday life, do we need another gizmo to show our advancement in the culture we live in? Do we really need to have Skype, or is it just a way to show that we can use the computers for another task, to convince people that we need them? Is Skype really helping us advance our knowledge of the subject that we are learning at school? Refrain from playing the "challenging the system, this isn't how you normally learn,school is controlling your learning ability" card with this one. Is it really "challenging the system" by learning with Skype and the laptops? How is it challenging the system if those things are already in our life today, and other people are using them? Of course, probably not the extent that we are, but the laptops are not an unknown luxury in the world.
Don't get me wrong, I adore the laptops. It's great to have them available. I'm just saying that we need to decide if using them to the extent that we are is really furthering us as students, or people in the "grown up" business world of today.
Point made.
Unfortunately, all the time I spent in the outside was plagued with computer problems. So I cannot comment without transcripts. Sorry. But I looked back a couple
On the inside though, today was kind of my unlucky day. I came a couple times to say a couple things, but then the subject moved quickly away. So I had to rethink my stuff. I think the inner circle went alright, it just did not really change. However,I was not quite up to par on the inside. I admit that. I had a hard time putting thoughts together today. For a reason. But that is no excuse.
Laurab: I would say skype is at least better than blogger, because it can be more coherent when used correctly. however, I think good old fashioned discussion is still the best. Nothing beats the human machine. Well, that is actually total bs. But I still like face to face discussion. I think tidepool was best. Its only flaw was the other groups were loud.
And as a segue into another discussion, or maybe even a debate(!):Is challenging the educational system inherently good? Is it good in itself to break from the mold? Does "Not education as usual" mean that we are set for success? Or could it even be bad to challenge the system sometimes?
not a criticism, just a thought.
To sum it up: I think that skype can be better. We showed it the first day. We just need to bring it together, and stay focused. And not forget the inner circle.
And charge the laptops.
And again, just because I think this would be great. WE SHOULD DO TIDEPOOL AGAIN.
I have a great idea. The group of discussers and presenters is separate, and then there is either one or two others from the remaining. And if possible, distance them for noise. Or build a fabric wall. I am serious. But tidepool and aquarium were the best.
Thank you for responding to my question emilyl, and mariak. Emilyl-I disagree with you on the fishbowl. Personally, I look forward to fishbowl days, and I would hate for us to change the fishbowl concept.
Benh- I agree, whether I am in the inner or outer circle, the conversation moves quickly, and the topic changes before I can get a word in. That is frustrating.
Mphair-You made a good point about Skype being too much like instant messaging.
Tyc-I agree, and personally, I had a hard time connecting to the reading this time.
Alexm-You said some pretty heavy stuff in your blog. I think it is great you have your own opinions, and in some ways, I agree.
Zachf- I agree. After a while, I become bored with our discussion in group 1.
Laurab-I agree. It is sometimes hard to say that the laptops further my learning.
Benh- I agree. I enjoy a face to face discussion. I think it creates a connection between us and our thoughts and is more meaningful. If we discuss on computers, our emotions are not expressed, and I think they form the connection.
Rileys-I also like that we can change our topics on Skype. I think it gives us control of our dicussion and learning.
I noticed that with this section at least, we often wore out questions with one or two comments, so we had lulls in the cunversation that got very boring. We often started acting silly during those lulls. I think it might have just been this section of the reading that was pretty straightforward. I hope this doesn't happen in the future because I, like Riley said, get bored and lose focus. Though it helps to change the question, it doesn't help if there are no questions to ask. I hope the next sections give us more questions that go into the depths of the reading.
I think that the discussion yesterday actually went very well if we focus on the inner circle, which, as has been said before, is the important part. I was in the inner circle most of the time and was skyping as well during that time. I noticed that the conversation lagged quite a bit. There would be a few minutes of good healthy conversation followed by a time where everyone was a little bit confused and didn't know what the actual subject was. The main problem I think we had was that we were trying so hard to avoid previous mistakes that we ended up making other mistakes.
Hannah,
I wasn't talking about abolishing fishbowl completely, I was thinking more in the vein of backing off from every other day. I do agree with you on the idea that laptops don't always enhance my learning. They are nice tools, and I really like being able to blog, but they are no subsistute for face to face conversation.
I was on the inner circle during the fishbowl. The one thing that I don't think we've quite achieved the quality of comments that we are capable of. We are so focused on making sure we get all of our points by making enough comments that we forget about thinking about our answers. I think that in the outer circle, some people were off task, but they were quickly reigned in by the others in the circle. That's all.
I also think that our discussions went ok yesterday. I think that part of the problem was that there weren't very good questions to talk about, and there was no depth in the converstation. We still talked about the book, it just wasn't very good. Honestly, I didn't pay much attention to the inner circle so I don't really have an oppinion on what went on in that conversation. I don't think that there is really a point to go into the inner circle if we are not going to get graded on it, at least for me. I don't usually get to say anything when I am in the inner circle anyways so it's almost pointless for me.
I feel that the discussion yesterday in my group moved a bit slow at times. I think that Skype is still much better for fish bowl because it is fast pace and easier to use than Blogger.
Blogger is great when it comes to leaving up long comments for everyone to see, and gives more time to read through them, it is easier to write well thought out comments on Blogger.
Benh~ That is exactly my point. Face to face conversations are the best way to share one's ideas. And I love your idea of having a modified tidepool as a discussion tool. As for your comment about "Is challenging the educational system inherently good? Is it good in itself to break from the mold? Does "Not education as usual" mean that we are set for success? Or could it even be bad to challenge the system sometimes?" That is a excellent thought. You do have to draw the line somewhere. You summed up in four sentences what I tried to say in a couple paragraphs. Great job! I'm not one for short responses, if anyone hasn't figured that out yet. We are on the same brainwave. Awesome thought!
Ben and Laura bring up an intersting point. "Is challenging the system inherently good?" Do we always need "this is not education as usaul?" I personally think this would an intersting blog topic or debate as Ben said. Are we in sense in this class challenging the the system to new heights by challenging it every day? Has challenging the system become the system? Something to think about.
Going off on a tagent, what was tidepool version again?
I am so happy to see what Laura and Ben are saying. This is how I have felt from the beginning. I have been trying to find a way to get this out in the open and I'm glad other people are seeing it the same way. Thanks guys.
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I have really heard a lot of people discussing the challenging the system thing along with me. And I think this would be a really good thing to discuss. So:
I have created a blog for the purpose of discussing challenging the system. Please and go there tell me what you think. Tell me if I am being stupid, or if it is a good idea. If you like it, give an idea for a discussion topic. I will put it up if I get enough support for the blog. I hope that Ms. Smith will participate if I do get support.
Woohoo, Emily! You bring up an interesting point about if challenging the system has become the system.
What is this Aquarium stuff, Smith, and why hasn't 2nd block heard about it?
Just wondering.
Anyone can answer this if they like.
(please do)
Thank you
Wow I definatly forgot to blog well anyways I think that our fishbowl went really well and it was a huge improvement from our previous skype discussion. Everybody seemed to stay on topic and we had some really in depth conversations, then again it might have been partly because of the visitors we had. The only thing that I think we can still improve on is having complete thoughts on skype and that if we need to we can always go slower on skype and not have such a fast pace conversation so that everyone can get their ideas and thoughts in. Overall I think that the fishbowl and skype went great and we should continue this in our fishbowls to come.
Overall I really liked using Skype. But I think that we should start in certain groups and then be able to comment in either discussion. Because I didnt really have anything to say in my group but had a lot to comment on in the other group. But truly I like using Skype better then Blogger.
Overall, I think that today's fishbowl went good. We are starting to give more in depth comments, and respond to eachother more. I like using Skype, because the conversation moves a lot faster, and we can get through more topics of conversation. We had a few lulls in the conversation, but I think that we responded to eachother better.
sarahc-I totally agree! It seems extremely sad to me that Ms. Smith has to tell us not to turn on Skype. It is extremely embarassing, but I don't know how we can fix it without getting rid of Skype. It seems that the kids in this class don't understand how much better fishbowl is with laptops! Just the other day in history class, we did a fishbowl, and it was so boring to just sit on the sides.
If we were to fix the problems with Skye and the laptops, I want the people in class to join the gosh-darn inner circle! I don't know what we'll do for the next fishbowl, but I almost want to suggest having one without Skype or Blogger and see how much they miss it.
I thought that our conversation today went much better than it had before. I thought that we were comminicating more and responding to each other better. It moved more quickly and smoothly and I felt like we accomplished more. I also thought that our insights were much more in depth and that people branched off of them more. Overall, it went well.
I thought that things went very well yesterday and there was a lot of in depth conversation about the topics that were suggested. I found that our group went on and on finding a ton of new ideas about 1 certain topic until we came to the conclusion that we had exhausted every possible idea for that question. I think that things went very welland I am thankful that we had Skype to help us out.
I am not sure if this is about yeatersday's fishbowl, but I will comment anyway. Yesterday, I think our fishbowl was much improved over the prevouis one. It seemed to move faster and be more revelant to the actual book. i still didn't see a whole lot of seat changing, but those who did come it made good insightful comments.
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