Thoughts, observations, comments, and concerns regarding our readings and classroom discussions.
posted by annes @ 8:26 PM
If you look in the bacl of the book, Montag is a paper company and Faber is a pencil company. I just thought that I would throw that out there.
That is really cool shaunam! It is kind of like the water and fire to get wine analogy that Montag and Faber connected to. The two are opposites but work together to form something, bigger, and greater! I thought that that was pretty cool. As for the fishbowl in school today, I think it was a little slower moving since Mrs. Smith wasn't there. The sub just kind of watched us because there wasn't anything she could do. In my group, we were carrying out two different conversations at first because people sat in the middle of the tables, but thanks to kathryn, we merged into the group we were supposed to be. otherwise, things went well. I'm just curious, how are others preparing for the essay test? I'm kind of lost on that!
I have a few questions before the test tomorrow. What does the italicized passage on the last page (page 165) mean?? What does it represent. I am clueless to it. Also, why does Montag not leave with the others? Where is he going, what is he going to do? I am wondering why Montag needed to remember about Chicago? To me, it just comes in a weird moment and doesn't mean a whole deal. Yet I think there's more to it than is shared.
kjerstinl~I think the italicized words on pg. 165 are from the Bible, though I am not sure where in the Bible they would be found. I think that those words just represented the direction that Montag and the other hobos on the railroad tracks are taking. They are taking a path towards rebuilding and healing. The last part of the italicized part says, "And the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations" which I think signifies the healing that will take place in society after the bombing, but also the healing of Montag's former restless and colorless life. I hope that made sense!
Christa, that was well explained I was confused on that too, but i still don't get one thing. What is to be healed? Didn't the city get completely demolished? It seems like the hobos are the only ones left and they don't really need to be healed. Although I'm pretty sure other cities are still alive....? Alee-To prepare for the test I'm looking back over all of my sticky note questions and re-reading parts that i want to understand better.
Kierstenl, the italicized type on pg. 165 is from the Book of Ecclesiastes, or the Hebrew Bible. This is the book that Montag remebered, and was assigned to remember by the new characters. Montag remebers Chicago because it is the place where Montag and Mildred met. In the moments when dear ones die, they often remember something, a memory or happy day, or the day they had first met. However, I do not think this fact is of importance, but that Montag's behavior is important. He has thought a million times I will not cry for her when she dies, I will feel no grief. Yet, as the bomb approaches the city, Montag is stuck with a sudden shock. Enough to make him cry out and call to Millie, to think of her. Has Montag been trying to make himself feel as if he doesn't love her?
Wow, you guys did a really good job explaining that! And to answer a few questions that were thrown out there, I think that the whole "healing of the nations" thing is saying that because the city, and other cities too probably, were bombed, now some healing will take place to get the society back to the way it was. I am just wondering, where do you think that Bradbury came up with the idea of the Pedestrian and F451? Do you think that it represents his opinion of anything?
I have another question: on pg. 164, Granger says, "Come on now, we're going to go build a mirror factory first and put out nothing but mirrors for the next year and take a long look in them". What does this mean? Does it just mean that they will examine the reasons why their society is the way it is? Are they going to examine their own roles and motives? If someone could explain a little, that would be good.Also, on pg. 159-160, it says, "Montag...imagined he saw her or felt the walls go dark in Millie's face, heard her screaming, because in the millionth part of time left, she saw her own face reflected there...and it was such a wildly empty face, all by itself in the room, touching nothing, starved and eating of itself, that at last she recognized it as her own..." Do you think that in her final moments of life Mildred truly realized what a futile and dreary life she had lived?
christas-I think that Millie did not realize what a dreary life she had lived. Just because she knows she is going to die doesn't mean it will automatically make her realize things and snap out of her dream state.
Overall, I think that today the fishbowl went ok. It was definitely not as organized as when Ms. Smith is there, and for sure not as interactive or exciting when we don't have our laptops. I definitively like it better with Ms. Smith there, and for sure with the laptops. They make everything so much easier to understand. I was also a bit confused about the italicized words at the end of the book. Do they have any particular significance or symbolism? Towards the end, there were quite a few scenarios where the words were italicized. I can kind of draw some connection, but I wonder if there is a deeper meaning there. Also, as we said in our group, the man that the police said was Montag; did he have any relevance to The Pedestrian? I know that Ray Bradbury also wrote The Pedestrian, and it said in the book that the man was just out walking at night. We know from earlier the story that it is illegal to do so. We thought in our group that there could be some sort of connection there. What do you all think??One more question, why did Montag all of a sudden start caring about Mildred again? When he was out by himself running at night, he kept thinking of her, and mentioning her name. It said that he couldn’t her off his mind? What caused this sudden change of heart and mind? Does he truly care for her; he just didn’t realize it at the time?Alee~ I have the same question as well. I am not sure exactly how to study, because we don’t know what to expect!
Overall, I felt our conversation today was a successful one. We did start out a little shaky and it seemed like so many people where talking at once that it was hard to follow. But we adjusted and got the job done. Chelsea, I believe there very well could be a connection between the pedestrian and the man the police captured. The book said that it was odd to find a person just wandering the streets in their city, and being a pedestrian is against the law, so there is a good chance that was the same man. Also Chelsea, I think that Montag never stopped caring about Mildred, he just came to his senses and realized that he did. He just remembered. I have a few questions regarding the end of the book. Why did Montag sense Clarisse had been on the train track as well? And, when Granger tells Montag about the Phoenix and how it is reborn through its ashes, I sense that when the city was hit by the bomb that was how the phoenix ties in. The city will be reborn from its ashes. But what i don't understand is why the phoenix is associated with the firemen then.Also, I just want to say that it is kind of ironic how if the italicized words at the end are from the bible, how it associates the river (which Montag floated down to meet the hobos), and fruits (which he imagined while floating down the river). Is there anything there? And I'm not quite sure how to study for this exam. You never can tell with essay format. I’m going to just stay up late and do all the studying I can and hopefully be prepared for tomorrow.
I am in 5th hour, but I wanted to answer Alee's question. I believe that she told us we would know the prompt beforehand, so the test might not be tomorrow. Ti study I would think about things that often come up in fishbowls, censorship, symbols etc and come up with questions from there. If you have time I would also read the blogs.
I have seen many comments about the "healing of nations" etc., and I would like to mention the phoenix. It symbolizes rebirth. This is what wikipedia says about them,"At the end of its life-cycle the phoenix builds itself a nest of cinnamon twigs that it then ignites; both nest and bird burn fiercely and are reduced to ashes, from which a new, young phoenix arises." I believe this relates to F451 because it is saying that the city will burn, but from those ashes, a new, more beautiful city will emerge. I believe that this is a big part of the symbolism of F451, and it needs to be mentioned. Someone in our fishbowl today mentioned that maybe this book shows that there are steps to challenging the system, that could include greif, anger, and even glee.Today's fishbowl, for our group was rather slow. A few classmates were sitting in the middle of the circle, and having their own conversation about topics not relating to F451. Once we got them to participate, it was a whole heck of a lot easier, but, again, it was a waste of that first portion of class. I do not really like the two circles, even though we are all allowed to talk now without getting up, because we can get distracted by the other group, and it becomes very loud when the two groups are competing to be heard.
Thank you to everyone who helped to answer my study question! Getting other perspectives help!To help others, I think the hobos on the railroad track wanted to open a mirror factory to help people see who they really are in a different light. By putting mirrors up all over the place, people would be able to look at themselves, not only from the outside but the inside as well. Mirrors don't really allow you to hide behind masks because they reflect who you really are, whether you like it or not.Everyone is talking a lot about Mildred and how Montag felt for her when he imagined her dying. I think that just knowing that someone that you know of and have lived with for many years is dying would disturb anyone. No one likes to think of others suffering, or dying in violent ways such as bombs. In my free reading book, one of the main characters is killed by a bomb, and his death affects people all over, whether they knew him closely or not. Death is a powerful thing, and everyone is disturbed by it. I think that this can partially explain why Montag thinks so much about Millie when he is with the hobos.
I think about the paper and pencils thing that Shauna said. Montag is the carrier for of the ideas, he isn't quite a intellectual person like the the hobos. However, he can remember the ideas that faber tells him. Therefor Faber is the pencil because he is writing the ideas on the the paper, Montag.I suggest to Ms. Smith that she disables the spam filter so we don't have to type all the random letters while live blogging.
Congrats to everyone on the disscusion today.I just wanted to say that I think it is kind of ironic, with the burning of Montag's house,and the bomb hitting the city, It was first with montag's house where it burns down, and it's the start of a new life for montag... then with the destruction of the city, and the city being rebuilt hopefully with better knowledge.
AAAAAAAAGH!when is the outside book project due??? People are saying this coming Friday, and some are saying Monday, and some are saying Wednesday of next week. I thought the discussion today was pretty flat because everyone seemed to be talking for the sake of hearing their own voice. So I changed groups. Happy Halloween!, and a quick response here would be much appreciated!!!!!!
I also agree w/ Phillip about the spam filters...its very annoying.
Like Chelseah said, it was really hard to do the fish bowl with out the laptops! I didn't realize how much we depended on them!
I think that the fishbowl went alright. I think that overall we were a little rough and got off topic a lot. Also i have to say i really enjoy doing the fishbowl with a larger group(the whole class) rather than seperating into two groups becasue i think that more discussion goes on even though people arent able to talk as often as we do when we are seperated but it was sort of difficult because both of our groups were talking about two different things and i would have liked to hear what they were talking about also. And also like what Chelsea and Shauna already said, it was a lot harder with out the laptops. I knew that they helped us with discussion, but i never knew how much we used them in a fishbowl and how much we rely on them. I think that sometimes we have a better discussion on the blogger rather than in the fishbowl itself.
The fish bowl was kind of overwhelming. We weren't as productive as we normally are. I think without the laptops it was too many people discussing and talking at the same time and it was harder to understand. With blogging we can say wat we think and not have to word it out... so.. there isn't so much confusion.
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