Fahrenheit 451 Fishbowl 113-136 period 2
posted by annes @ 7:42 AM
Smith's 9th Honors Class Blog
Thoughts, observations, comments, and concerns regarding our readings and classroom discussions.
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100 Comments:
Beatty knew that Montag had the flame thrower, and he knew that he could do something with it.
I think maybe Beatty wanted to die because maybe he felt the emptiness of his life and maybe he even wanted to challenge the system by reading books, but didn't have the courage. Maybe he felt that life was not worth living if he didn't challenge the system.
adamb~
what do you mean? Who?
Sarah
I think he said that because Beatty didnt try to save himself. He didnt try to stop Montag.
mmmmkay...guys how are we gonna separate the comments from one group to another
i say that my group is group 1, and we write GROUP 1 at the top, and group two does the same... post back!
thats kind of true in any society. no one thinks bad things will happen to them. it is just taken to the next level in their society because they don't care at all if their friends or even family die.
GROUP 1
sounds good alex!
no! I think we should be a whole group on this because our conversations are different between one another.
ok alex sounds good!
Jess, I think that to REALLY challenge the system is to die. I guess to really get the point across
Jess i don't think that death is the only way to challenge the system but it is definatly the method that is used the most throught the three books
alex
I don't think we really need to separate the groups. we're challenging the system here.
GROUP 1
I think that Montag may have killed Beatty because Clarisse introduced him to a new way of thinking from the beginning. She kind of started a chain reaction in a way...so Montag's new thinking caused him to kill Beatty out of anger and maybe because Beatty just annoyed the crap out of him.
Shauna, dying is not really challenging the system unless you die for a just cause or a rebellion against a radical force, etc.
wait a minutie shauna... do you have to die to challenge the system?
how about if your comment is directed to group 2 then put GROUP 2 at the top.. but if it as a general comment then dont put anything.
GROUP 1
It does seem like Beatty enjoys literature, and it sort of brings on his downfall. He was to lienient with Montags fascination with them.
sarah- I think that Montag says that Beatty wanted to be killed because he didn't put up a fight or stop like someone who wanted to save his life.
Sounds good
sounds good
I agree with alex. I think Beatty could have acted faster with Montag, but he thought Montag would "come to his senses" and burn it himself.
NICE POINT KIMMY!!!!
I think Beatty doesn't realize that Montag will have the courage to kill him.
elyse~
i think that Montag grew farther apart from burnig things, but I think that him burning Beatty was an act of instinct and first reaction.
Paige, I think that he has so much adrenaline that his leg just goes away and he does not notice it anymore.
I agree with Phillip, Beatty really underestimated Montag
Jess we just put the exact same thing.
OHHH nice point Kimmy!
Birds!! What is the symbolism of birds both n the book and in real life? What do we picture brds to mean? Why?
adriana~
I think that the sleeping pills are just a means of escape for society. They let them kind of be at peace and in their own way, "challenge the system".
This last part of the book was the most fast paced and interesting....with the running and the flame thrower ( the best part) and the destruction of the green bullet...i also liked the part where Montag forces Faber to turn on all the sprinkers and AC in order for the Hound to not find him.
I agree w/ Christa
kjertinl
the injection was procaine
Kathrynt- I think that birds symbolize different things. Like the phoenix is rebirth and then the raven is like evil and death.
if anyone is still wondering, procaine is just another name for novacaine
adriana- I don't really agree with christa-I think that the pills are what enfore the system-to challenge this system, you'd have to learn-to feel-to have your own ideas.
haha thanks declan
whoa when did brids come into this karthryn?
what do birds have to do with anything?
good point, adriana.
alexm~ in our conversation
alexm- There are many references to birds in the book-and there are also many about the "wings of the books", etc. We are simply analyzing that.
adriana good point
YES!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU ADAM!!!!!!! FINALLY A BREAKTHRU
---connor( computerless) agrees too
adam~
i disagree, i think that pills have a lot of meaning and symbolism, especially of how reliant Mildred is of the parlor walls, pills, etc.
OK the birds like the phoenix symbolize rebirth like when Montag burnt his house to start over
a phenoix is also a fire bird
ok i have a new question...why do you think Montag was telling Faber to do all that stuff when he was getting ready to run away? Montag told him to rub the doorknobs with alcohol, pack a suitcase with dirty clothes and they also drank whiskey. Why do you think this is?
I think the pills are the community's way of fixing problems-being happy. I think they symbolize how ignorant the community is-they know there's a war, but do they care? do they even know how to care?
Could war symbolize the challenge that is going on with Montag and the rest of the world? War is declared right as he begins to run aaway to FAber's house and planes alwaays fly over when he talks of the books and with change.
hannahj-so that Faber won't get in trouble/burned.
It was to get rid of Monrag's scent from Faber's house. The suitcase is for montag to change clothes.
Montag didn't want the Hound to come to Faber's house and kill Faber and he wanted to make sure that the house smelled like him afterwards.
Hannahj~ So that the Mechanical Hound can't track him down
i agree with chelsea i think that the pills have a lot of symbolism in this book. i think that mildred relies on the pills a lot in this book. Also i have a question when mildred overdosed on the pills and almost died why was montag so depressed and scared but just a little bit later montag was saying how that if mildred died he doesn't think he would cry or anything
hannahj~
Montag told Faber to do this so the mechanical hound wouldn't smell his scent on Faber's house, and he is going to wear a bunch of Faber's old clothes to cover his scent so the hound won't be able to track him.
Nice point about the phoenix shauna!
hannah
he was telling Faber that stuff so the Hound wont catch Faber too.
Yea the fie makes everything equal. It makes the books go awat so that some peole cannot be superior to others through knowledge.
I agree with Josh about the fire
does it talk about birds in the book, or how did they come up?
Paige, birds are free to think and fly around, like books, they can think and express whatever they want.
Sara, i think Montag lost control, and because the books have caused him to think differently now, he couldn't stand to sit there and listen to them talk like that, so his new mind frame got the best of him and he just came out. I think he said he felt like a fool too.
I think that the books are like birds because they sow freedom-happieness-ideas-a dove represents peace(white pigeon=dove, guys), etc.
paige~
I think maybe the books are compared to flopping dead birds because they are kind of helpless. The books can't really save themselves, so maybe Bradbury is trying to say that people need to step forward to protect books and knowledge.
paige n-I think that books are compared to birds because books are the victims of the situation in this society. They are like innocent things (birds) and really, they never did anything...except have opinions.
Adriana, not and unfair advantage in our world, but in this world, it is considered unfair to be intellectualy superior and that is the mindset of the people in this book.
Montag is an ignorant being that doesn't know very much yet... I don't think that Beatty WANTED to die, but I don't think he minds it very much. Beatty I think, thinks along the same line as Montag is now beginning to, but he enjoys burning too much to gove it up...
Chelseah~ It says like a phoenix is a fire bird and it burns in the fire and then is reborn again. It starts over
shaunam
kinda like the one in harry potter. it was a phenoix:]
Who is comparing them to peacful things? I forget..
i think that they keep comparing the books to peaceful things because they keep destroying the books because they are the ones that are making the society unhappy and unpeaceful, so they burn them to keep the society peaceful. i think that the books destroy the peace.
Paige, birds are compared to books from a standpoint of our modern world, but not to the world in the book. To the world in the book, books are like drugs.
THis is what our group is discussing: What does fire represent?
I think that fire is life-we mentioned that these people arn't really alive-is the fire that alive to them? Do they really know life?
Endsleye! O yeah! I haven't seen that in a LONG time
Good point, jess. I would never have thought of that!
I don't think that the firemen realise the symbolism in the Phoenix. They just use it as a cool symbol, which it is... Phoenixes are pretty awesome. Its too bad they dont really exist.
Fire is a force that you can't control. Sure we can make, but if a forest fire starts it takes along time to put it out.
Why did Montag cry when he killed Beatty and he cried when he saw kids who could have killed Clarisse, but he wouldn't have cried if Mildred died?
Doesn't the phenoix also heal people with there tear drops or is that just in harry potter?
kjerstin~
i think that he cried for them because he generally cared for them. if mildred would have died, he might have cried, but i dont think there were many feelings for her....
also the phonix is reborn through the ashes so what does it really mean and symbolize in this book. is the pheonix reborn everytime that they burn books and the houses
Paigen, I think that it is impressive b/c most animals cannot do that without dying
It can also heal itself, according to declan.
I was just thinking that what if Montag gets caught on fire and dies. He would be killed by the thing that was for so long the focus of his life.
Salamander's can regenerate limbs.
kjerstin~
I think that Montag cied when Beatty died because he had worked with him forever and they were kind of "in it together". He cried for Clarisse because he felt that she was so pure and actually cared about him. He wouldn't cry for Mildred because he never really cared for her, and she didn't really care for him. They were both indifferent about their relationship.
Yea Brian its tears heal things.
Phillip~ that is really strange
jess
i think yes
Jess and obviously they can be in fire for quite some time.
jess~
me too, i think you can find symolism in almost anything in the book
Good point Josh!
Phillip-that is a nice ffact, but it may sow something---if salamanders can regenerate limbs, are the firemen trying to say something when they use it as their logo? If so, what?
hey anna, that's what I was thinking! geez, you stole my idea...
Jess that connects to what i was saying on the blog because they are being destroyed by the very thing that was their focus for quite some time.
apparently modern day Phoenixes are
PENGUINS
yeah i know
your amazed
Wow! Penguins!
Well the pheonix's symbol is that the pheonix burns and is rebirthed. Men are the same way in that we make the same mistakes over and over again and must rebuild after it. Granger is mad becuase we have one thing the bird does not and that is the ability to learn from our mistakes.
Oh and i never thought about the salamander that was good whoever brought it up!
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