Friday, October 27, 2006

Fahrenheit 451 Fishbowl 113-136 period 5

173 Comments:

Blogger danh said...

Let's get this party started!

Fri Oct 27, 12:22:00 PM  
Blogger maria k said...

whew. mUcH better pic...

Fri Oct 27, 12:27:00 PM  
Blogger tomr said...

Don't speak so soon, Maria.

Fri Oct 27, 12:28:00 PM  
Blogger Mphair said...

I'm staying out of it...by the way, I liked your "Phair is phoul" comment yesterday...sorry...

Fri Oct 27, 12:30:00 PM  
Blogger maria k said...

ahhhhh! What is that?

Fri Oct 27, 12:30:00 PM  
Blogger maria k said...

ohhh jk its dora sry

Fri Oct 27, 12:30:00 PM  
Blogger EmilyL said...

This has become a predictable dicussion.

Fri Oct 27, 12:30:00 PM  
Blogger kenna_d said...

good one guys good one

Fri Oct 27, 12:31:00 PM  
Blogger AnnaD said...

I love this class... We're so weird!!!

Fri Oct 27, 12:33:00 PM  
Blogger EmilyL said...

Guys for the blog today could you guys indetify the group?

Fri Oct 27, 12:34:00 PM  
Blogger Rileys said...

to the infinity...





and beyond

Fri Oct 27, 12:34:00 PM  
Blogger erinl said...

OK so I thought that the whole house burning down was weird. Anybody else think that?

Fri Oct 27, 12:34:00 PM  
Blogger kenna_d said...

good one riley

Fri Oct 27, 12:34:00 PM  
Blogger danh said...

The cool ones are group one and the group with Hannah M. Staller is group 2.

Fri Oct 27, 12:34:00 PM  
Blogger Rileys said...

wrong pic though

Fri Oct 27, 12:35:00 PM  
Blogger Lane C. said...

Ok I'm thinking its time to start the real discussion.

Fri Oct 27, 12:35:00 PM  
Blogger Madisonm said...

Group 2:

I think that Beatty probably knew about the books all along, but he just kept giving Montag more chances...and I think that Mildred probably "told on" Montag aswell, because she didnt like the amount of stress that they were under, and all of these new things she was experiences...she was confused and uncomfortable because she was experiences circumstances that she wasnt used to

Fri Oct 27, 12:37:00 PM  
Blogger maria k said...

I was wondering what made Beatty so smart, what made him want to think. And also where he got his knowledge of books, he recited some poetry to Montag?

Fri Oct 27, 12:37:00 PM  
Blogger EmilyL said...

The group with Joanne
We are dicussing why Mildred turned Montag in. Here's a thought is Montag the ghost in Mildred's closet so to say?

Fri Oct 27, 12:38:00 PM  
Blogger Lane C. said...

Group 1:

I agree that Beatty probably know all along about the books.

Fri Oct 27, 12:38:00 PM  
Blogger tomr said...

Emily, that's exactly what I think. She's challenging his challenging the system, so to speak.

Fri Oct 27, 12:39:00 PM  
Blogger Lane C. said...

Maria, I was wondering the same

Fri Oct 27, 12:39:00 PM  
Blogger maria k said...

ya about A LOT of books. Did he ever break the law maybe and read them?

Fri Oct 27, 12:39:00 PM  
Blogger Rileys said...

she's covering her own arse, because if she didn't send in an alarm she would face concequences with Montag. Somehow without emotion she is still afraid of being held responsible

Fri Oct 27, 12:39:00 PM  
Blogger Zachf said...

Mildred thinks she will avoid being prosecuted if she tells the authorities about the books.

Fri Oct 27, 12:39:00 PM  
Blogger AnnaD said...

Beatty said that he was "forced" to read books, Maria. I think that this was Beatty's way of being better than other people; he was elevated because of his knowledge. His going-against books was to make it so that no one else could have access to his source of power, books.

Fri Oct 27, 12:39:00 PM  
Blogger Mphair said...

Group 2:

I agree as well...yet

So Maybe it was like she thought she would be guilty by association, so to cover her, she just turned it in.

Fri Oct 27, 12:39:00 PM  
Blogger Lane C. said...

Interesting thought, Emily.

Fri Oct 27, 12:40:00 PM  
Blogger Rileys said...

just say g1 or g2 before your comment to show which group your in. make it more uniform and less confusing

Fri Oct 27, 12:40:00 PM  
Blogger Lane C. said...

I think that Mildred turned the books in because she was saving her own sin.

Fri Oct 27, 12:40:00 PM  
Blogger BenH said...

I think Zachf is right. I think that she was seeking amnesty.

Fri Oct 27, 12:41:00 PM  
Blogger Mphair said...

Scared...what is that defined...It seems to be a major part of this book.

Fri Oct 27, 12:42:00 PM  
Blogger Lane C. said...

G1:

We're discussing what we would do in Montag's situation. How about you Group 2 people. What would you do?

Fri Oct 27, 12:42:00 PM  
Blogger Maddyg said...

I think of course that Faber always knew about the books. He had that talk with Montag when he was sick and before they got the call about the fire.

Fri Oct 27, 12:42:00 PM  
Blogger AnnaD said...

Here's an interesting question from our side: What would you do if you were in Montag's situation?

Fri Oct 27, 12:42:00 PM  
Blogger EmilyL said...

Which groups are which? I'm guessing Joanne is leading group two and Ben and daniel are leading group one?

Fri Oct 27, 12:42:00 PM  
Blogger AnnaD said...

I think we should lose the whole G1 and G2. How about the Dark side and the Light side???

Fri Oct 27, 12:42:00 PM  
Blogger erinl said...

lane-why would Mildred want to save her own sins? Mildred doesn't have any feeings. Does she care that she has sins.

Fri Oct 27, 12:43:00 PM  
Blogger Mphair said...

Anna-an answer!

I would feel complete shock and probably denial.

Fri Oct 27, 12:43:00 PM  
Blogger Maddyg said...

sorry, my last comment was directed at Laine's comment.

Fri Oct 27, 12:43:00 PM  
Blogger BenH said...

I would run away and immediately flee to Faber. I would seek a place to hide with a friend.

Fri Oct 27, 12:43:00 PM  
Blogger danh said...

I probablt wouldn't have the courage to kill Beatty and wouldve cowered away and died right there.

Fri Oct 27, 12:43:00 PM  
Blogger Rileys said...

emily, everyone needs to have a uniform way of saying which group they are in without the hassle.

maybe it would be best to have to different blogs.

Fri Oct 27, 12:43:00 PM  
Blogger Lane C. said...

That's right Emily.

Fri Oct 27, 12:43:00 PM  
Blogger Rileys said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Fri Oct 27, 12:43:00 PM  
Blogger AnnaD said...

I think I'd do the same thing, Michelle!

Fri Oct 27, 12:44:00 PM  
Blogger BenH said...

We are all talking together, Rileys.

Fri Oct 27, 12:44:00 PM  
Blogger Lane C. said...

Wrong Laine, Maddy. I'm Lane. It's ok though.

Fri Oct 27, 12:44:00 PM  
Blogger Rileys said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Fri Oct 27, 12:44:00 PM  
Blogger maria k said...

anna~so is the government staying powerful because they let themselves have access to books? Is this their way of keeping the image of Utopia?

Fri Oct 27, 12:44:00 PM  
Blogger sarahc said...

I think most people would have lost it in montag's situation.

Fri Oct 27, 12:44:00 PM  
Blogger Zachf said...

If i was in Montag's situation I think I would be the same way because after so much time of keeping it in I would snap.

Fri Oct 27, 12:44:00 PM  
Blogger BenH said...

mariak: I think that it is all habit. The government rules out of habit, and the people follow out of habit. There is not longer any reason. Like with the war.

Fri Oct 27, 12:45:00 PM  
Blogger EmilyL said...

Lane, I think would have just run. I have always been really bad about killing th danger. if I'm in any dangerous situation I run.

Fri Oct 27, 12:45:00 PM  
Blogger tomr said...

Maria--I always figured they were as brainwashed as the rest of the world. Hasn't this society been in place for quite a while?

Fri Oct 27, 12:45:00 PM  
Blogger karib said...

Is anybody else having trouble bloging and discussing at the same time? It's making my brian hurt.

Fri Oct 27, 12:45:00 PM  
Blogger Laurab said...

I don't neccessarily think that Mildred was challenging the system, tomr. She sent the alarm about Montag and the books. I think that she did that because, like we have discussed before, Mildred follows the rules and is afraid to do anything that would be considered against the rules. She knew that the books were against the rules, so she wasn't going to tolerate it and turn the person in who had the books, even if that person was her husband. She is like all the others in the society and does what she is supposed to: report anybody who has books in their house.

Fri Oct 27, 12:45:00 PM  
Blogger hannahs said...

I think Beaty was always smart but he just had this charming appearence that made him seem harmless. However, I think his true character was exposed when they were at Montag's house.

Fri Oct 27, 12:45:00 PM  
Blogger tomr said...

Laura B.--I said she was challenging Montag's challenge of the system.

Fri Oct 27, 12:46:00 PM  
Blogger maria k said...

tom~ya, i guess we dont know. Faber knew the other world though, so it couldnt be too long...

Fri Oct 27, 12:46:00 PM  
Blogger BenH said...

karib: Me too.

Fri Oct 27, 12:46:00 PM  
Blogger AnnaD said...

Maria, I think that that is a large possiblity. With books comes power, so the government would have a very keen interest in books. Though this would not fit with the whole idea of the PEOPLE causing the books to become obsolete.

Fri Oct 27, 12:47:00 PM  
Blogger maria k said...

hannah~appearance vs reality! But then why did he need to sugar coat Montag the first time?

Fri Oct 27, 12:47:00 PM  
Blogger Laurab said...

I agree with you, karib, and I also like your pic. Having to pay attention to the discussion and blogging at the same time is hard to do.

Fri Oct 27, 12:48:00 PM  
Blogger BenH said...

I think that by turning in books, Mildred was trying to bow down to the system. She wanted amnesty.

Fri Oct 27, 12:48:00 PM  
Blogger EmilyL said...

We are talking about scarfice in group two Mildred made huge scarfice in turning Montag in. She lost her security, tv, etc... Did she make a scarfice for the greater good?

Fri Oct 27, 12:48:00 PM  
Blogger sarahc said...

maria, I think Montag was sugar-coated because maybe his appearance was not what the socitey liked.

Fri Oct 27, 12:48:00 PM  
Blogger Madisonm said...

In Montag's position, I am not sure that I would be confident enough in myself and what I believed in at the moment, to do anything drastic or anything really. I would probably end up having my opinions but not doing anything extreme...like if Beatty showed up at my house and told me to give the books up and burn my house, I would probably just do what he said or run away....rather than kill him and then run away...

Fri Oct 27, 12:48:00 PM  
Blogger BenH said...

I dont really think that the government is interested in books. They dont care. They just do and do not think.

Fri Oct 27, 12:49:00 PM  
Blogger sarahc said...

emily, I think Mildred was desperate, and overwhelmed and scated. People do crazy things when they are desperate.

Fri Oct 27, 12:49:00 PM  
Blogger Mphair said...

Over how long a period of time does this book go over... from when it starts...

Fri Oct 27, 12:49:00 PM  
Blogger tomr said...

Ben--What do you mean, "They just do and do not think?"

Fri Oct 27, 12:49:00 PM  
Blogger BenH said...

I agree. Desperation is a powerful force.

Fri Oct 27, 12:49:00 PM  
Blogger hannahs said...

Did Beaty really want to die or did he believe he had enough of a hold on Montag and Montag would hand over the flame gun?

Fri Oct 27, 12:50:00 PM  
Blogger erinl said...

I think that it's scary that Beatty knew so much about books and poetry.

Fri Oct 27, 12:50:00 PM  
Blogger maria k said...

ben~someone has to think. Have you read The Giver?

Fri Oct 27, 12:50:00 PM  
Blogger sarahc said...

mphair
I think so far, we've covered a couple weeks.

Fri Oct 27, 12:50:00 PM  
Blogger EmilyA said...

I think he burned his house because he was told to. He hhas always followed what he has been told and done what people have said.

Fri Oct 27, 12:50:00 PM  
Blogger BenH said...

sorry tom. That was not real clear. What i mostly meant is they rule out of habit. Like "lets start another war." They probably do not really consider what action is necessary and what the actions they take will do.

Fri Oct 27, 12:50:00 PM  
Blogger Madisonm said...

one thing about this story so far---from our perspective as the reader, Montag usually comes off as a "good guy" and that he is doing the right thing. But if an uprising like this happened in our real world, and a person acted the way Montag has, would we still consider them a good guy?

Fri Oct 27, 12:50:00 PM  
Blogger Lane C. said...

I think Beatty thought Montag was Bluffing. Well...He was wrong.

Fri Oct 27, 12:50:00 PM  
Blogger Mphair said...

Sarah c-

Thanks...

Fri Oct 27, 12:50:00 PM  
Blogger sarahc said...

emilya,
Montag hasn't actually conformed to everything that e was told. He fluctuates.

Fri Oct 27, 12:51:00 PM  
Blogger BenH said...

No, I have not maria. But do people really have to think that hard in this world. They just do what they always have.

Fri Oct 27, 12:51:00 PM  
Blogger sarahc said...

mphair
no problem

Fri Oct 27, 12:51:00 PM  
Blogger Lane C. said...

What does Montag mean when he says, "We never burned right ..."

Fri Oct 27, 12:52:00 PM  
Blogger BenH said...

Madisonm: I think that is a great question. If someone went against the society we perceived as just, then we would not.

Fri Oct 27, 12:52:00 PM  
Blogger AnnaD said...

Another interesting question from "The Dark Side:" What are the similarities and the differences between Montag's emotions from the first page of the book and his emotions from pages 116 and 117?

Fri Oct 27, 12:52:00 PM  
Blogger maria k said...

ben~in The Giver, they believe that someone has to hold all the memories of what a non-Utopia world is like so that it will never be forgotton. How could that relate to this story? Does Montag maybe feel so trapped because there is NO ONE to do this, no one that thinks?

Fri Oct 27, 12:52:00 PM  
Blogger sarahc said...

Lane
I think he means that burning might be the solution to the problems, but they burnt the wrong things.

Fri Oct 27, 12:53:00 PM  
Blogger Rileys said...

yeah lane, his russian roulette blew him out the window, he picked the one with the bullet in it.

Fri Oct 27, 12:53:00 PM  
Blogger tomr said...

In the book, Montag isn't considered a "good guy" by his peers. The group mentality dictates to us what is right in wrong, in both our present world and 451's.

Fri Oct 27, 12:53:00 PM  
Blogger Mphair said...

I like your idea Hannah...we grow up like our parents, wether we want to or not.

Fri Oct 27, 12:53:00 PM  
Blogger AnnaD said...

Lane, Montag is realizing that they never burned for the right reason, aka for the good of the people. He is trying to explain this but is at a loss for words.

Fri Oct 27, 12:53:00 PM  
Blogger BenH said...

Maria: I think in this case the memories of past society are in books. And they try to destroy these memories. It solidifies the foundation of their modern society.

Fri Oct 27, 12:54:00 PM  
Blogger EmilyA said...

Why would Clarrisse be working for Beatty? I am confused.

Fri Oct 27, 12:54:00 PM  
Blogger Shelby B. said...

I don't think that Montag was made to kill, I think that it could have been his hands just doing it and not himself thinking.

Fri Oct 27, 12:54:00 PM  
Blogger karib said...

Good question Lane. I'm not sure, but I think it refers to the morals of why they were burning things, not just books. Burning the books was bad, but it helps him justify burning Beatty. I don't know what part of the book that quote is from.

Fri Oct 27, 12:54:00 PM  
Blogger Rileys said...

ben-it's not that there is no one to lean on, he does have Clarisse and Faber, but they aren't enough, Clarisse died and Faber is to afraid to do anything, so Montag feels the pressure and snaps.

Fri Oct 27, 12:54:00 PM  
Blogger AnnaD said...

Good point, Ben.

Fri Oct 27, 12:54:00 PM  
Blogger maria k said...

ben~ya! and then when there is no proof left, when the books are all gone, they can change those memories to what they want. good one.

Fri Oct 27, 12:55:00 PM  
Blogger tomr said...

Michelle--Good point. Our parents have the greatest influence on us from an early age, similar to the "education" system in the book.

Fri Oct 27, 12:55:00 PM  
Blogger karib said...

Shelby, I think he killed because he knew there was no other way out. Beatty had threatened him, and was taunting him.

Fri Oct 27, 12:55:00 PM  
Blogger Shelby B. said...

Emily A.- Clarisse would be working for Beatty because she was underfile and when he was sick Beatty said we knew Clarisse and kept a watch on her and her family he probably knew him really well.

Fri Oct 27, 12:56:00 PM  
Blogger hannahs said...

I wondered that too. The way Beaty talks about Clarisse at the begining of this section made me think she was working with him.

Fri Oct 27, 12:56:00 PM  
Blogger erinl said...

emilya- I think that the impression was made that Clarisse was working for Beatty the way that they were talking about her.

Fri Oct 27, 12:57:00 PM  
Blogger EmilyL said...

Maria, I think in this book the view of memories is opposite of the Giver. They are try to erase the past, not remember it all.

Fri Oct 27, 12:57:00 PM  
Blogger BenH said...

I really do not think she worked for him. All she did was make him lose an employee.

Fri Oct 27, 12:57:00 PM  
Blogger Shelby B. said...

Kari B., but he was threatened that much he just did it and I think his hands were the exuce.

Fri Oct 27, 12:57:00 PM  
Blogger Lane C. said...

Anna D., If that's true then what are the right reasons?

Fri Oct 27, 12:57:00 PM  
Blogger Mphair said...

Tomr- I like your connection to the education system. How their education dealing with the TV in basically every class...it's amazing that they even have pe classes and aren't all so totally fat couch potatoes.

Fri Oct 27, 12:58:00 PM  
Blogger EmilyA said...

I really don't think Clarrise worked for Beatty either. Why would she influence Montag to be interested in books if Beatty wanted the opposite?

Fri Oct 27, 12:59:00 PM  
Blogger EmilyL said...

We are talking about the possibilty of Clarisse working for Beatty in G2. I think that she does to a ceratin point work. She has so man freddoms that others don't have. I get the impression that she doesn't regularly ateend scholl, and everyone else does and yet she isn't disciplined.

Fri Oct 27, 12:59:00 PM  
Blogger AnnaD said...

I should ask this question again, now that we've read farther in the book. Is Montag truly a hero of the story? Can we consider Montag's actions heroic or simply confused and brash? This question is not asking if he is the protagonist of the story, it is asking if Montag is TRULY the typical, classic, storybook hero.

Fri Oct 27, 12:59:00 PM  
Blogger maria k said...

Did Clarisse have it in her to work for the government? She seemed so genuine, with a family. Maybe the government viewed her as a threat and her influence on Monta was an accident.

Fri Oct 27, 12:59:00 PM  
Blogger lindseyc said...

i just made a good comment on appearance versus reality.
yay!

Fri Oct 27, 12:59:00 PM  
Blogger sarahc said...

mphair
Maybe they have lots of pe because they do watch so much tv.

Fri Oct 27, 01:00:00 PM  
Blogger hannahs said...

At the end of this section, Montag plants books in the Black's house. Who are the Blacks?

Fri Oct 27, 01:00:00 PM  
Blogger danh said...

hooray for lindsey!

Fri Oct 27, 01:01:00 PM  
Blogger tomr said...

Emily L., are you suggesting that Clarisse is so rebellious because she doesn't regularly attend school?

Fri Oct 27, 01:01:00 PM  
Blogger EmilyL said...

Off the idea of pe classes, it is possible that hey are genetically engigeeered so they won't get fat. We also don't how strenous there pe classes are.

Fri Oct 27, 01:01:00 PM  
Blogger erinl said...

In their school they have, I think, they have two classes a day that's some form of PE

Fri Oct 27, 01:01:00 PM  
Blogger Rileys said...

hooray for lindsey!?!

Fri Oct 27, 01:01:00 PM  
Blogger Shelby B. said...

Anna D. I think that he has just lost his heroism by killing Beatty, I think he was the hero before.

Fri Oct 27, 01:01:00 PM  
Blogger maria k said...

anna~i think Montag is a hero for wanting to challenge the system. He was scared, but he wasn't a coward like Faber. And i think he shows his heroism even more in this section because he wanted to protect Faber and he had a strong sense of courage when he was running.

Fri Oct 27, 01:01:00 PM  
Blogger BenH said...

Black is one of the other firemen.

Fri Oct 27, 01:01:00 PM  
Blogger BenH said...

why has he lost his heroism by killing Beatty?

Fri Oct 27, 01:02:00 PM  
Blogger Lane C. said...

The Blacks are one of the other Families of a fireman. Black is mentioned at montag's house.

Fri Oct 27, 01:02:00 PM  
Blogger Lane C. said...

What are the right reasons for burning.

Fri Oct 27, 01:03:00 PM  
Blogger Mphair said...

ENLIGHTENMENT!!!

MAYBE CLARISSE IS A SYMBOL OF CHALLENGING THE SYSTEM!!! EURIKA!!

Fri Oct 27, 01:03:00 PM  
Blogger EmilyL said...

Tom, I was no trying to suggest that. I'm trying to say that posibbly Clarisse works for Montag trying to catch those who have books. She befreinds and dies. People are disappointed that she dies, and slip up.

Fri Oct 27, 01:03:00 PM  
Blogger lindseyc said...

thank you riley!

Fri Oct 27, 01:03:00 PM  
Blogger AnnaD said...

I agree with you, Shelby.

Fri Oct 27, 01:03:00 PM  
Blogger Maddyg said...

Does the machanical hound scare everyone, or just Montag? It would make a lot of sense if it did scare everyone and play on people's fears.

Fri Oct 27, 01:04:00 PM  
Blogger EmilyA said...

Annad
Good question. I believe he is a hero. He changes the society and shows people (including MIldred) a new way of life. Showing that books may not be so bad after all. But later on in hte book he may not be a true hero. Who knows...

Fri Oct 27, 01:04:00 PM  
Blogger BenH said...

What did Beatty gain from Clarrisse?

Fri Oct 27, 01:04:00 PM  
Blogger Lane C. said...

you spelled eureka wrong. sorry

Fri Oct 27, 01:04:00 PM  
Blogger lindseyc said...

thank you daniel!
also.

Fri Oct 27, 01:04:00 PM  
Blogger Madisonm said...

Ben: about him losing his heroism by killing---I think the fact that he has killed may cause people, or the readers, to question the way they feel about him and whether or not they agree with his cause...

Fri Oct 27, 01:04:00 PM  
Blogger Shelby B. said...

Because how is reading books and killing someone that just threatened him to be arrested being a hero?

Fri Oct 27, 01:05:00 PM  
Blogger erinl said...

I think that killing is a symbol of evil and "bad". If you thought that Montag was a hero earlier I wouldn't think that he would be very heroic. Just like Macbeth killing the king and Macduff's family, it's not very heroic to go out and kill people, in my oppinion.

Fri Oct 27, 01:05:00 PM  
Blogger hannahs said...

Why didn't Montag plant the books in the firehouse instead of in the Black's house? Why not carry out his plan now before he leaves?

Fri Oct 27, 01:05:00 PM  
Blogger TyC said...

ben, I think that Montag is kind of a tragic hero. He definetly challenged the system, and wasn't that one of the qualities we said that a tragic hero has earlier this year?

Fri Oct 27, 01:05:00 PM  
Blogger Mphair said...

Lane-

Thanks. I'm a bad speller...in case you couldn't tell.

Fri Oct 27, 01:05:00 PM  
Blogger EmilyA said...

maddyg
I think the mechanical hound only scares him. I think he has an enemy in his work and somebody whos out to get him.

Fri Oct 27, 01:06:00 PM  
Blogger maria k said...

madison~ when i read this, i kinda hoped he would kill Beatty. As soon as he took the first book, Montag started to challenge the system and if he stoped then, then Faber would get in trouble and there would be no one left to keep standing up for books.

Fri Oct 27, 01:06:00 PM  
Blogger erinl said...

I think that the mechanical hound scares Montag because he knows he has a secret that he wants to hide, and the hound can like detect it or something like that.

Fri Oct 27, 01:07:00 PM  
Blogger Madisonm said...

HannahS, good point! That would make a much bigger change and effect in the society if he had planted the book in the fire-house; how might that have changed the society?

Fri Oct 27, 01:07:00 PM  
Blogger EmilyL said...

About the hound, I think the hound literally rips and tears poeple.

Fri Oct 27, 01:08:00 PM  
Blogger erinl said...

I didn't know that the mechanica hound was violent.

Fri Oct 27, 01:08:00 PM  
Blogger lauraf said...

hannah- I think that he wants to plant the books at the basis of their society and why everything is so corrupt, therefore, if the fireman change, then that will possibly change the way that the society function

Fri Oct 27, 01:09:00 PM  
Blogger AnnaD said...

I agree that at the beginning of the book Montag is a very important, good character. But the question is not whether he is good or not, it is whether he is a hero or not. A true storybook hero knows without question what is right and what is wrong and is willing to fight for the right. This story is different in that there is no exact definition of what is right or wrong. This makes it difficult to characterize Montag as either a hero or not. He has no idea what is right and what is wrong. He has no idea of how to go about changing his society, but the fact that he actually WANTS to change the society can allow us to classify him as a hero. He challenges the system, but the arguing point is whether he does a good job of it or not.

Fri Oct 27, 01:09:00 PM  
Blogger Madisonm said...

Maria: good point

Montag is connected to so many things in the society (it. Clarisse, Faber, Beatty) so I guess that it would make sense that Montag could also be considered a type of hero in the sense that he and Faber have to carry out their plan, and expose the truth

Fri Oct 27, 01:09:00 PM  
Blogger Lane C. said...

What are the RIGHT reasons to burn?

Fri Oct 27, 01:09:00 PM  
Blogger karib said...

Does anybody think that the random book that he pulled out of the venitlator grille just happened to be the Bible or does it symbolize anything?

Fri Oct 27, 01:09:00 PM  
Blogger BenH said...

Lauraf is right. They want to take the society down from the inside out. Just like parasites.

Fri Oct 27, 01:09:00 PM  
Blogger sarahc said...

kari Bible was the book that we "saw" Montag steal.

Fri Oct 27, 01:11:00 PM  
Blogger EmilyL said...

Why relation do you see between the birds in Macbeth and 451?

Fri Oct 27, 01:11:00 PM  
Blogger Shelby B. said...

Kari B.- I think that is was a symbol in a way because he started to want one.

Fri Oct 27, 01:11:00 PM  
Blogger Lane C. said...

That is interesting Kari. I think it just follows along the theme of religious (sp) things.

Fri Oct 27, 01:11:00 PM  
Blogger erinl said...

lane- the right reasons to burn is to get rid of all the problems that come from indepdent thinking and problems in general that come from haveing books around.

Do they have newspapers or magazines?

Fri Oct 27, 01:11:00 PM  
Blogger tomr said...

Emily L., in both, birds are the symbol of freedom and innocence. In 451, that's what is being destroyed.

Fri Oct 27, 01:12:00 PM  
Blogger Lane C. said...

Come on people doesn't anyone want to answer my question. How do you burn right? What are the right reasons to burn?

Fri Oct 27, 01:12:00 PM  
Blogger EmilyL said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Fri Oct 27, 01:12:00 PM  
Blogger AnnaD said...

Erin, they don't have any newspapers, but they have magazines.

Fri Oct 27, 01:12:00 PM  
Blogger Laurab said...

karib~ I think that the Bible might be a symbol for something, but it also might not be. The Bible is a well known banned book around the world, so that might be just a book he used, but you never know... good question.

Fri Oct 27, 01:13:00 PM  
Blogger maria k said...

lane~ "It is a pleasure to burn..." There is no right way or wrong way, as long as it gets done. I think that by burning something you are making sure it never can come back.

Fri Oct 27, 01:13:00 PM  
Blogger lindseyc said...

that was fun.
it was exciting.
i just want to put it over the edge.

Fri Oct 27, 01:14:00 PM  
Blogger Lane C. said...

THANKS Erin.

Fri Oct 27, 01:14:00 PM  
Blogger tomr said...

Oh, Lane, I'll take a crack at it. It is right to burn to protect people's minds, at least in the view of the government.

Fri Oct 27, 01:14:00 PM  
Blogger Lane C. said...

Then Why does montag say, "We never burned Right..."

Fri Oct 27, 01:15:00 PM  
Blogger Mphair said...

Lane--maybe "we didn't burn the right things, or went about it all wrong

Fri Oct 27, 01:17:00 PM  
Blogger Aylar said...

In This section of the book I think Montag is beginning to relize that burning is WRONG! Books aren't wrong they TEACH, and enable thought. Montage is beginning to see this when he talks to faber and when Beaty comes by his home. He's driven by curosity and that's good he wants to understand! To learn to know what's going on in his world. Mildred however can't see this at all she's perfectly content being bland and boring, going through life without a longing to know! Montag see this and doesn't know if he loves his own wife, or if he even did for that matter this Troubles him! He's willing to expose the truth at any cost right now! He'll do whatever it takes. Faber and Clarisse changed him why can't he change his society?

Thu Nov 02, 07:33:00 PM  

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