Thoughts, observations, comments, and concerns regarding our readings and classroom discussions.
posted by annes @ 8:27 PM
Well, I just want to start by saying I didn't really understand our entire conversation as the noise level was pretty high. But as far as i can tell we talked a little bit about the method of the 'hobos' (People Montag meets at the tracks) and whether or not it is effective. I dont really think it is, if you just take one group of people that are ostrasized from society, and try to challenge the entire society with them it's not going to work. They need someone to be in the core of the cities, someone who will make a difference in the main place where society is deteriorating. Montag kind of had the right idea with planting books in the firemands houses, but not entirely. At least he tried to something in the main society to change everyone, not just the 'hobos' and their families.
Our discussion was pretty fast-paced, but it was a little hard to hear. I thought it went a little better,and definitely had more spoken comments because we didn't have the option of blogging.In my group, we talked about Mildred and how we thought she might have felt as she watched her husband being chased on TV. Our conversation was mostly dominated by a discussion about how the media controls nearly everything in our society. The same companies who provide entertainment also give us our news. The media tells us how to think. Those were big points in our discussion.Emily, I don't agree with you on the point that the hobos were doing nothing. Their "plan of action" was not to act. The way they handled their role was simply to remember, so that they would be available to teach people when they came to the revelation that they weren't thinking.
This conversation gave my appreciation of how hard you work, keeping people on track and the dicussion moving. As a presentor sure, I had my questions but I wasn't prepared to keep the conversation going.On to the actual comment. In my group we briefly dicussed whether or not the ending is good writing. Bradbury not only brought a new character, but he blew up the setting. At first I was disappointed with the ending because I didn't think blowing up the town was the way to solve the problem. Now, with tht help of my group I have decided that blowing the city while may not have been the right decision, it has its importance in figuring out what happens next. I think the blowing up of the city not only plays off the Cold War and nuclear war, but shows that the city is going to rise from the ashes like the phoenix.
It was pretty difficult to hear and be heard during our discussion today and I feel not everyone wa able to get their point across. We could use a little more structure when discussingin this format.Our discussion touched on the issue of the media monopoly of our news. My thought was that the media is the only way we can get our news. The media outlets will put out the stories that get viewers, readers, and most of all, money. This related to the futuristic society that Montag lived in where everything is censored.
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emilyh:I aksi disagree with you on the hobos. I think that the hobos were doing a very useful thing by memorizing books. They realized that they were insignificant and would not be able to change the world by themselvs. Rather than giving up hope though, they became individual vessels of knowledge and intellect. They had an appearence of being hobos but really they were containers of information, waiting for when the time was right to enlighten and familiarize the society with books. I saw the hobos as symbols of hope because they carried with them the key that would lead to the society's happiness. Also, I think they knew that this society would not accept their teachings and they did not have any interest in taking down the society. The hobos just knew that, like the phoenix, this society would be reborn and want to introduce books back into their way of life.
In our group (near the door) we brought up the question about how Montag finally started to recongnize stars and as to why he realized them now, was it because he was out of the city or because he had time to actually look at them? I would say that it is like said before that they needed to slow down and look at the flowers not whiz by and only see the green grass. So I think by this Montag was able to slow down and finally see the stars which where maybe inportant to him.EmilyH I see what you are saying, but I think the hobo's where there as a back up and a helper as he was really depressed. I think that they do play a large role, I think they are the family he never really had.
Shelby, that's a great point. Montag is finally getting the intellectual conversation and interesting people he greatly desired.In our group, we discussed if our society could ever descend to that of 451. Just thought I'd throw that out there. I'll interject my own opinions later.Regarding the fishbowl/tidal pool/whatever, I really don't like this format. It's too chaotic having two different conversations once, and having to screech at the top of your lungs to be heard. Plus there was some interestingness in dividing up the groups.
emilyh, you made the point that the hobos were just one group of people. Actually, when the hobos explain who they are, they tell Montag that there are many of them, not just a small group. They even say that there is town of them.I think that our society could descend that low, but it is not very likely to. All the schools have been putting so much emphasis on reading books that I think it would be nearly impossible to become a society like that of 451.
Personally,I think what the hobos were doing is good. It is important to make sure knowledge is not lost, and to plan for every eventuality. I think it is good they are ready, and have found a safe place for their ideas.
Our conversation went pretty well, although it was DEFINATELY louder than I personally prefer...Emilyl-I believe that they DO have a chance, as their soecity is not just this one group that Montag meets, it is an entire organization, which is spread out throughout the entire nation. I mean, ther is that one town in wich each perosn is assigned one chapter to memorize. Also, this IS off of the Cold/neucler war. Look at the time it was written, and the current events of that age...Shelbyb-I really like your point on the stars, I mean, how many of us actually go outside and LOOK at the stars, and actually SEE them? I went to Zion National Park this summer, and got to look at the stars. Because we were away from the citylights, there were soo many! I think that the stars represent the smallness of humans, and how insignaficant we are.
Oh yeah. As far as loudness was concerned. Both groups were pretty loud, but, unlike the other, my group never produced any shrieks. But the sub only got mad at us. How unjust.
emilyh-I think that for the society that they live in, the "hobos" way of living may not appear effective, but I disagree. Granger says that the firemen have never searched the countryside to destroy them because of the knowledge they contain, because the government does not think it is threatening. Although the book says that the groups have never done anything to fight against society, I think that they are waiting for the right moment, when the controlling power is weakest, to be able to get to the people in society who have just been brainwashed their entire life. If the "hobos" try to change the people, they will most likely be ignored, just like Mildred ignored Montag. This is most likely because the government has them captivated with their parlors and stuffing them with useless information. However, if the power/firemen are destroyed, and the society's "happiness" is gone, then they will search for something new that will fulfill that want and need. That is what the hobos are waiting for, for the moment when society needs to be rescued most from a destroyed system of government.
I enjoyed this Fishbowl, though I would still opt for the Aquarium style. It is much easier and a lot more organized. I feel as though we accomplish more in Aquarium style than we do in either of the other two styles. I hope that we get to do Aquarium soon!
ben~ ahhh ya you're right that sub drove me crazy! we missed you Smith!!!I like the regular fishbowl a lot better, I noticed that because we had a smaller group, our conversation wasn't as stimulating and we didn't get to hear the opinions of everyone else. Maybe next time we can try it differently, like where we switch our or something.Zach~ I agree with you that we get most of our info from the media, but I also think that we get even more info from the "gossip" of other people around us. In 451, when Mildred met with her little group of friends, I noticed that they gossiped most of the time, especially about the things on TV, even if the talk was mostly empty headed
Myself and lanec had a great idea: Once people have their five comments they go to a separate discussion group.What do you think? Love it? Hate it? Stupid? Racist? Tell me. I won't cry. I don't think lanec will either.
Ben I agree completely. I place myself in this group too. I was completely focused on getting my five comments until I actually had gotten my five comments. Then, since it had been a long day, I became more easily distracted by things such as the pretty colored pens on my desk. I think the separate discussion I visited was in LaLa Land. This goes back to one of the first posts about do grades really matter. Shelby, after reading your comment, I thought about the last time I looked at the stars. I realized that I couldn't remember the last time I actually looked at the stars. It might have been on our trip to Kansas considering we were driving around at midnight in the middle of nowhere and there wasn't anything else to look at. But, like Montag, my star gazing occured in the countryside. This could just be due to the fact that there are fewer lights to block them out. I think there is just something about the countryside that makes us want to look at the stars. I don't know whether it's the feeling of purity due to the fact that you are away from the pollution and congestion of the city or the fact that life seems less complicated and looking at thet stars seems like the right thing to do.
Hey guyesFirst, I didn't know that we were suppost to be blogging on our own after the fishbowl. I'm a little behind on that so sorry.About the stars thing.. I don't know how often anyone goes outside and looks at the stars for their beauty and sence of comfort. Well at least I think that they have a sence of comfort. Last time that I had a real good look was probably this summer when I was in Florida. We were on a boat like in the middle of no where and it was great caues you just looked at the stars and they were all there bright and shining. They are great to look at when they are the only thing giving off light. As a random comment, I didn't like the way that the book ended. I though it was a lame way to end a really good book.
As far as stars go, I think it is kind of an interesting metaphor. Generally when stars are used in literature, they are used as a literary device for showing the smallness of the character against the universe in which they live, as well as insignificance. In my opinion, this applies somewhat to Montag because he is one small person trying to make a difference.
Period 2 has overtaken us by one comment. I hope to rectify that.
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