Thursday, April 19, 2007

Period 5's 225-274 Adventure: The Conclusion

Hello again, since I know you haven't had enough of Tom posting blog entries, here we go again.

Your preliminary question, pre-discussion:

O'Brien states when he is informing Winston of the world's "truths" that, "Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship." What does this quote mean in the context of 1984? Fahrenheit 451? Better yet, how can we apply this to America, or even the world, today? Be creative.

Have fun! (There shall be more to come as discussion warrants!)

Thomas, Benjamin and Hannah-banana


Blogger EmilyL said...

Sorry this was not pre-disscussion but anyway...

To me this quote shows how the party is different form every other ruling system there has ever been. All other dictatorships are concerned with suppressing a revolution. The party is concerned with having a revolution so it can have a dictatorship.

Fri Apr 20, 03:40:00 PM  
Blogger zachf said...

This quote relates to 1984 in every way. They had an old society which was like the one we live in today. Then came the revolution where all of this power came in to play. Without the revolution there would be no dictatorship and no power.

Fri Apr 20, 07:31:00 PM  
Blogger BenH said...

I think it means almost exactly the same thing in 1984 and LOTF. Both Jack and the Party want power for the sake of power. Not for any greater good, or to protect the people, but just to be in charge.

Sat Apr 21, 09:39:00 AM  
Blogger AnnaD said...

I agree with Ben (yet again!) This is similar to what Winston realizes earlier in the book when he sees the thrush. It doesn't sing for any particular reason; it doesn't accomplish anything through its song. It simply sings for the sake of singing. This, on the other hand, can be applied to the Party. It seeks out power simply to have power. The Party doesn't use its power to accomplish anything; it just has power for the sake of having it. This is much the same as in Lord of the Flies, as he said also.

Sat Apr 21, 02:27:00 PM  
Blogger Aylar said...

I agree with BEn the PArty only want the control and power for powers sake. There is no rytme or reason to the ways of the party. Just the fact they want to control the people that exist within Oceania

Sat Apr 21, 04:47:00 PM  
Blogger maria k said...

I also agree with Ben and I think that it is a part of humanity to want power and control. That's what all the wars in 1984 are about: countries fighting for more land and more people to control. I think that because wealth can't go to everybody, the people in power take for themselves, establishing the High, Middle, and Lower class.

In our society, I've noticed that the people in charge usually have more wealth than the people in general. Sometimes I wonder if the government only helps the people because that will help them stay in power.

Sun Apr 22, 03:42:00 PM  
Blogger karib said...

In the context of 1984, the quote represents change. All of the previous totalitarian dictatorships claimed that they were for the good of the people, while this one is the first to admit that that is not its true purpose. Now I have to try and remember all the way back to Fahrenheit 451...that was a very long time ago. In Fahrenheit 451, I think the part of the quote about the fact that power "is an end" can be literally represented by the end of the government due to the war which it started. On the issue of war, what is up with all totalitarian societies needing war?

The only thing I can tie this quote to in the present is the rise and fall of Sadaam Hussein. Now correct me if I am wrong, but he was part of a giant power shift in Iraq back in the stone age (just kidding) and his regime came to power because OF the revolution.

Sun Apr 22, 05:48:00 PM  
Blogger erinl said...

I agree with kari in that the quote reprsents change. I also think that the quote is implying that there had to be some kind of a war before someone could take charge. Adding one to what kari said- that this goes hand in hand with what happened in Russia.

Sun Apr 22, 07:08:00 PM  
Blogger hannahs said...

I understand what O'Brien is saying when he says "one makes the revolution in order to establish a dictatorship," because a revolution usually happens when people are unhappy with their government and looking for new leadership. What better time for a hopeful furture dictator to step in and take control. Also, during a revolution, a country is usually unstable which allows a dictator to set up any form of government they want. Finally, the people of the revolting country are probably so in need of a change that they will accept anything a new government tells them. For example, in 1933, when Hitler came to power, he was successful in part because Germany was completely unstable economically and close to tearing itself apart. Thus, Hitler took advantage of Germany's vulnerability and established Nazism throughout the country. However, it is important to remember that Hitler was elected, through muddy terms we all know, but none the less he was. So, to conclude, O'Brien is correct because history proves that a revolution is a useful and successful way to establish a dictatorship.

Sun Apr 22, 08:55:00 PM  
Blogger maddyg said...

When I first read this quote, I rightg away cringe at the words "the world's 'truths'." After our discussion on Friday I have been going out of my mind trying to figure out what the truth is and its driving me crazy. Anyways, this reminded of our "What it Takes to Challenge the System" border that we put around the top of the classroom last semester. We said that it took power to challenge the system, but this says that power is not so much a tool to challenge the system, but more of a bragging right. It is not really something that the Party want's to make changes, but more to just know that no one else can.

Sun Apr 22, 08:55:00 PM  
Blogger Shelby B. said...

Like everyone else I agree with Ben. But putting it in modern terms it is so true power is what many people hold on to. They believe that it is the answer to their problems, when it really can be destroying them because they are power hungry. Which I think relates back to 1984 because in the end I think there society will come to an end even though it doesn't in the book I think they are destroying their society by being so power hungry. Also, starting a war with in your people allows them to fall into your power allowing you to bribe them into a dictatorship.

Mon Apr 23, 02:49:00 PM  
Blogger Mphair said...

In context to our world and our history, this quote easily relates to events that have already occured. For one thing, the Russians overthrew the Tsar, and instead put in Kerkensky, who was later replaced by Lennin and even later Stalin. Eventhough the Tsar may have attempted to stop the revolution, his dictatorship style government was merely replaced by various governments untill a fairly stable government came in, which was dicorial as well.

This relates to 1984 and this quote in that the revolution established a shaky government, which gave way to a totalitarian government.

Mon Apr 23, 09:45:00 PM  
Blogger Lane C. said...

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I forget where that came from but I think it pretty much sums up the connections between 1984 and Lord of the Flies. Both rulers, like Ben said, really just love power and what they can do with it. At first, for both, it may have started as trying to actually make things better but it always ends up as "whatever gets me in the better position." Therefore, the revolution and the power go hand in hand each justifying, though for a different group, the other.

Mon Apr 23, 09:53:00 PM  
Blogger lindsey c said...

In the context of 1984, this statement means that the world could not change until there was a revolution. The Party had to take over Oceania before they could control the people within the country. If they had tried to do it before they had taken control, then they would not ever be able to take power over all of the people. In this case, Big Brother is the dictator and his government created the revolution in order to do so.

Tue Apr 24, 12:38:00 PM  
Blogger Laurab said...

I think that the quote means that no one establishes a dictatorship in order to make the world a better place. They make a dictatorship to show the rest of the world their power, and to control the people they govern to a extreme. Many dictators say that they do it for the better of the people, but that is rarely the case.

Tue Apr 24, 02:21:00 PM  

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