Thursday, April 12, 2007

Fishbowl per.2 1984 117-147

54 Comments:

Blogger briang said...

What is the significance of Winston and Julia meeting (the first time in the park) in the day instead of the night?

Fri Apr 13, 09:05:00 AM  
Blogger Kjerstinl said...

Well, maybe because they're hiding, but in plain sight, making it more of a risk to be with one another. Also, the day is when more people are out and about, when more people are looking.

Fri Apr 13, 09:07:00 AM  
Blogger elyseh said...

I think the fact that they meet in the day makes it somewhat less secretive because if you are meeting at night you are potentially sneeking around and then they might get figured out sooner.

Fri Apr 13, 09:08:00 AM  
Blogger jberry said...

Normally bad things happen at night and good things happen in the day

Fri Apr 13, 09:09:00 AM  
Blogger _annaw_ said...

They (once again) know that they're going to be taken by the police, so I think they would rather meet in the daytime. It is a more open situaiton, and talking is a lot easier during the day.

Fri Apr 13, 09:09:00 AM  
Blogger endsleye said...

elyse i agree with you. it makes sense.

Fri Apr 13, 09:09:00 AM  
Blogger KathrynT said...

Night time seems to be the time that bad things happen, and so them meeting in the light may imply them doing something good, instead of just meeting for the sake of rebellion

Fri Apr 13, 09:10:00 AM  
Blogger jberry said...

So... by them meeting in the day shows that they are willing to take risks in order to be together, and that their fear of the Party isn't as great anymore.

Fri Apr 13, 09:10:00 AM  
Blogger _annaw_ said...

But just like when they would walk and talk in the crowd, talking during the day makes them less suspicious, and might give them even more time.

Fri Apr 13, 09:10:00 AM  
Blogger adrianag said...

In the night, bad things happen. It is also when people often challenge the system or do things of that sort. Maybe the daytime shows that even thought they are defying the Party, they are really doing what is right. Maybe Orwell is trying to say that meeting like normal people is right, and the Party is unnatural.

sorry this took a while. My blogger was being weird.

Fri Apr 13, 09:10:00 AM  
Blogger connord said...

well a theme through the year is how during the night evil things always happen. This is the opposite since it is during the day so it might be the opposite of evil, good.

Fri Apr 13, 09:11:00 AM  
Blogger Kjerstinl said...

Well at night is when the men could get prostitutes and stuff. Why couldn't Winston just bring Julia then? He has had prostitutes in his house before, so it's not like he hasn't hid someone before...

Fri Apr 13, 09:11:00 AM  
Blogger elyseh said...

Ok this subject is getting boring. Does anyone have a new question?

Fri Apr 13, 09:12:00 AM  
Blogger SarahEChurchill said...

I think they meet during the day because people are busy during the day. They work and eat and take care of children, etc. People would be more likely to hear/notcie if they were gone during the day. Plus, if they were gone at night the telescreen found them not in their beds, it would raise suspicion. But since they wre always gone during the day anyways, it is not as suspicious.

Fri Apr 13, 09:12:00 AM  
Blogger jberry said...

I agree with kathryn. By meeting in the day they are then doing a good cause instead of a bad cause.

Fri Apr 13, 09:12:00 AM  
Blogger joshb said...

Night is when you see thugs and other people who would strike you as rebels. Drug deals and other rebellious activities take place mostly at night.

Fri Apr 13, 09:12:00 AM  
Blogger connord said...

Actually he had sex with the prostitute at a house in the proles quarter.

Fri Apr 13, 09:13:00 AM  
Blogger adrianag said...

Maybe meeting in the day shows that they are the "good guys," becaue like some people said, night is when the "bad guys" work.

Fri Apr 13, 09:13:00 AM  
Blogger _annaw_ said...

What was the symbolism of the thrush?

Fri Apr 13, 09:13:00 AM  
Blogger SarahEChurchill said...

Ps- my comment got a little messed up.

Okay, People would be more likely to hear/notice if they were gone during the NIGHT (not day.

Fri Apr 13, 09:13:00 AM  
Blogger Phillips said...

Winston and Julia cannot rebel during the night because they are being watched by the telescreens. They have to do all their rebelling during the day when they are expected to be out and about.

Fri Apr 13, 09:14:00 AM  
Blogger jberry said...

yahh.
and when he was with the prostitudte it was in the dark.

Fri Apr 13, 09:14:00 AM  
Blogger Kjerstinl said...

Phillip-
What about the telescreens in the day? They're still watching them then.

Fri Apr 13, 09:15:00 AM  
Blogger jberry said...

Winston's wife probably doesnt' want to find him missing or something also.

Fri Apr 13, 09:15:00 AM  
Blogger elyseh said...

I think the symbolism of the thrush could be that there is still some beauty that is not made by the government. The bird sings on its own and then when it notices that Winston and Julia are there it gets scared and leaves.

Fri Apr 13, 09:15:00 AM  
Blogger Hannah J said...

sorry this comment might be a little late, but blogger wouldn't post it.

I agree with elyse. Meeting in the day, is way less secretive than meeting at night. People are 'out and about' during the day, so more people are around and they wouldn't look suspicious.

Fri Apr 13, 09:16:00 AM  
Blogger KathrynT said...

jberry-- I think that they have never really been afraid of the party, but they have always been cautious about it. I think that they are still cautious, in the way that they act and are really quiet and sneaky. The only time that they are not very cautious is when they rent the room above the antique store. But their routes there and the fact that the place is secluded and has no television is still a cautious thing

Fri Apr 13, 09:16:00 AM  
Blogger _annaw_ said...

This night and day talk reminds me of the candle in the song we're talking about in the inner circle...could they be similar?

Fri Apr 13, 09:16:00 AM  
Blogger adrianag said...

The thrush was something that the government couldn't suppress. It reminded me of Winston. The bird was singing even though no one could hear. It's kind of like when Winston was writing the diary even though deep down he thought it would be destroyed, unread.

Fri Apr 13, 09:17:00 AM  
Blogger Kjerstinl said...

I think that the thrush was also surprising to the two too. Like when Winston was talking about the story with Katharine and the cliff. There were no birds there! I think that it shows like there is a world outside of the dreary people and the dreary town. It's kind of like what Elyse said. But also, maybe it could be like they have someone watching them, only they don't have to be afraid of the bird.

Fri Apr 13, 09:17:00 AM  
Blogger KathrynT said...

sorry, that last comment of mine took a while to post.

Fri Apr 13, 09:17:00 AM  
Blogger jberry said...

I think the bird shows the human nature of people. People can be themselves and be crazy or whatever they want when they are alone by themselves, but, when they are in front of people they become self- conscious and intimidated.

So, should the gvt keep singling people out in order to preserve fear?

Fri Apr 13, 09:18:00 AM  
Blogger SarahEChurchill said...

I have a new question (since we are staring to repeat ourselves):

When Winston and Julia are walking in the forest by the meadow, he asks her if a stream is nearby, etc. and then says, it's the golden country. What does he mean.

Quote:"Winston looked out into the field beyond, and underwent a curious, slow shock of recognition. He knew it by sight. An old, close-bitten pasture, with a footpath wandering across it and a molehill here and there...'Isn't there a stream somewhere near here?'he whispered. 'That's right, there is a stream...' 'It's the Golden Country-almost," he murmured...'a landscape I've seen sometimes in a dream." (123).

Fri Apr 13, 09:19:00 AM  
Blogger Hannah J said...

Along with the night thing, that connects to Macbeth. Didn't we do a project where we all had a different word, like man, hand, night, etc? I don't remember who said that bad tihngs happen at night but that was something we talked about while reading Macbeth and I can definitely see something like that happening in 1984.

Fri Apr 13, 09:19:00 AM  
Blogger alexd said...

I think he is being led into a trap, either by Julia or O'Brian or both. It seems like it could be O'Brian who assigned Julia to Winston, to watch him.

Fri Apr 13, 09:19:00 AM  
Blogger Kjerstinl said...

The thrush also represented freedom, to not be afraid of it either, just like the fat lady singing. She wasn't afraid of anything happening, she just sang.

Fri Apr 13, 09:19:00 AM  
Blogger christas said...

Good point, adriana. I think the bird represented freedom, because it doesn;t have to worry about the thought police or thoughtcrime or being controlled. It seemed to have no concerns besides its songs, and I think that Winston was attracted to that freedom and longs just to sit and be at peace.

Fri Apr 13, 09:19:00 AM  
Blogger joshb said...

jess, when the gov singles people out, it instills a strong sense of fear so bad that the people would do anything but rebel against their country. Unfortunately, it does not work with everyone.

Fri Apr 13, 09:20:00 AM  
Blogger Kjerstinl said...

Ah! Everyone, we have too many conversations going on at once. Let's just focus on ONE topic, then post a new question once we're done, because obviously, we haven't been done with some of these questions.

Fri Apr 13, 09:20:00 AM  
Blogger connord said...

alexd-

there is no way that julia is not on his side after all the things she did in this last section.

Fri Apr 13, 09:21:00 AM  
Blogger jberry said...

The Golden Country- like the view is so pretty and beautiful and he hasn't seen anything like that in so long so it is surreal.

Also, how does color effect all this... in the day its colorful and at night its black & white...?

Fri Apr 13, 09:21:00 AM  
Blogger christas said...

This is a little off topic, but why do you think that Julia was attracted to Winston? He is quite a bit older than she is, and they don;t really seem like they are fighting for the same cause. Julia just wants to challenge the system by breaking small rules, while Winston wants the way fo the government to be totally destroyed.

Fri Apr 13, 09:22:00 AM  
Blogger Hannah J said...

Maybe the "Golden country" refers to a time before Big Brother and the telescreens and all the rules, etc. Winston could be remembering when where he lived was like government today instead of all the controlling that Big Brother does.

Fri Apr 13, 09:22:00 AM  
Blogger jberry said...

josh-

so what would happen if the people started to stick together and be a whole and not individuals?
Do you think they could overthrow the Party?

Fri Apr 13, 09:23:00 AM  
Blogger connord said...

Christa-

I think it must have been something in a look like him and O'Brien. She said earlier she is really good at picking out "rebels." Her liking him has nothing to do with his look, but his feelings for the party.

Fri Apr 13, 09:24:00 AM  
Blogger joshb said...

Jess-Probably, if they do overthrow the party, I know that it will not just be one person.

Fri Apr 13, 09:24:00 AM  
Blogger Kjerstinl said...

Well the Gold country makes me think of lots of color. Gold, and other bright colors (hm... I wonder why?). But I think that it shows the freedom outside in the Golden Country, without anything or anyone to worry about. The get to be themselves, and that make sit colorful with the different personalitlies.

Fri Apr 13, 09:24:00 AM  
Blogger jberry said...

christa-

Thats a good question. I don't think that Julia is attracted to Winston. She sees that he's weak and knows he doens't agree with the Party, so she is going to use him to rebel against the gvt.

Fri Apr 13, 09:24:00 AM  
Blogger KathrynT said...

Christa - That was one of the quiz questions; in the book it says that she was attracted to him because there was something in his face that seemed to tell her that he was against the party.

Fri Apr 13, 09:24:00 AM  
Blogger christas said...

I think that even if the people did come together, they wouldn;t be able to overthrow the Party because the proles and everybody seem simple minded and only care about things like the lottery. I don;t think that they would all be able to work together

Fri Apr 13, 09:25:00 AM  
Blogger SarahEChurchill said...

Julia is attracted to Winston because he is a rebeler. There are not many people who show or are rebelers of the Party, so she takes what she can get.

Fri Apr 13, 09:25:00 AM  
Blogger KathrynT said...

Why do you think that Winston didn't want to lie to Julia about how he had originally felt about her before he got the note?

Fri Apr 13, 09:25:00 AM  
Blogger KathrynT said...

Good Job Everyone! Have a good rest of the day! And a good weekend!

Fri Apr 13, 09:27:00 AM  
Blogger shaunam said...

Hi guys, I counldn't blog during class..blogger was giviing me problems.
Anyway, to answer Katherine's latest question, I think that Winston feels really comfortable with Julia since he knows that she is on his side. Julia was truthful with him about her views and Winston maybe feels that he should do the same.
For Brian's first question, I think that it would be too suspicious if they met in the dark. If they were walking around in the dark at night, I think that the telescreens would spot them and become skeptical. However, if they meet in the day, there is more people around talking to each other, which seems less suspicious to telescreens.

Sun Apr 15, 01:58:00 PM  

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