Period 2's Breathtaking Discussion Presses On!
To continue the discussion we had in fishbowl on Friday, here is your blogging topic Period Two...
In the chapters we discussed in fishbowl on Friday we discovered much more about whom Julia's character is. How does she compare to Winston? How is she similar? How is she different? How do their outlooks on the rebellion against the Party compare and contrast? Do their differing generations affect their opinions of the Party? Why did Orwell bring these two characters together?
You don't need to address every question, we only posted them to drive some discussion.
Sorry this was posted rather late as well.
briang, chelseah, endsleye, paigen
posted by briang @ 10:30 PM
19 Comments:
Julia is different than wiston because she thinks that the party can not be distroyed, so she just breaks large rules to counter it. Wiston on the otherhand knew a time without the party, so he thinks the party can be elimitated.
I agree with alexd, but I also want to mention the different points of view. Julia just challenges the party because she wants to and doesn't actually care about how bad the Party really is. Winston wants to learn and know exactly what the Party is doing to manipulate the people.
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Winston remembers a little of what life was like before the Party took over, and he remembers really vaguely that it was better and happier than the present. Julia, because she is younger, has no knowledge or memory of earlier times, and the Party is all that she has ever known. Winston wants to eliminate the Party and its manipulation because he recognizes that the life he is living now is not satisfactory. Julia, like everyone else has said, only wants to break the smaller rules to rebel against the Party, but doesn't want to do any huge acts of disobedience because she believes that the Party cannot be overthrown. Because of the difference in generations, Winston and Julia have completely different points of view on the Party. I also think that Julia just lives for the moment and doesn't want to think about tomorrow or dismal things, like the vaporizations of different people and the fact that she will probably be killed by the Party or be vaporized. Winston seems to believe that everything is futile, and at one point in the book I think he said that anything that he and Julia and the Brotherhood (if it exists) could accomplish against the Party would result in failure, but that some types of failure were better than others.
I think that Winston and Julia are very much different because of there different generations. Winston remembers some things from before the Party and thinks that that rhyme has a meaning, while Julia knows nothing except for what the Party says and she knows the rhyme but it has no meaning to her. Julia's rebellion is more just because she doesn't like the ways of the Party while Winston's is more because he knows that they are lying and things used to be different. She is more involved in the government which makes her look like a citizen and Winston trys to avoid all aspects of the government that he can. They are both against the government but their determinations are much different.
Anna, to add to your analysis of Winston. I think he doesn't just want to figure out what the government is doing--he already knows a little--but also why. I agree with pretty much everything that has been said about the two characters. I think the main reason for many of their differences is the fact that Winston can remember life before the revolution; Julia can't. Her whole life, even her memory, belongs to the Party. Even though Winston's life wasn't very good before the revolution, he realizes that life without Big Brother, etc. is possible. Julia doesn't truly know what the world could be like. Her view, in a way, is more practical. The government and Party have always existed for her, so why should anything change now? This leads to her attitude towards rebellion. I think she knows deep down that she will die without making a difference so instead of making a heroic gesture of dying unkown and rebellious, she chooses to spend her time making her own life better. She's probably happier than Winston who dwells on the depressing hopelessness of life. Although our society does think higher of the people who sacrifice to try to change something than those who don't do anything in a seemingly unescapable situation. Which one's better? I'm not sure. Maybe it depends on the situation.
Winston and Julia differ quite a bit mostly because of the frequently mentioned age difference. Winston seems more mature that Julia is, and so he thinks more about the long term. Julia isn't necessarily immature, but she thinks more short term, so she doesn't think the party can be destroyed.
I think that Julia relates to WInston because they both disagree with the party. But she tends to follow the small rules so she is able to break the big ones. Winston on the other hand, follows the big rules and breaks the small ones such as having the journal. But when Winston discovers Julia's views on the party, he feels like he has to do something bigger. He knows that he now has backup and can participate in more drastic things.
It also says in the book that Julia does not care about the next generations to follow, just about her and Winston and their own effects on society.
I think that Orwell brought them together because they have similar views, but different ways of going about things. I think that with Winston combined with Julia, they can sombine their different opinions into something big.
I think that the main differences between Julia and Winston is that Julia refrains to see the big picture, of where their life is headed, and is ok with living the way that they are. However, Winston continuously wonders about the past, how he could change things, and doesn't like hiding everything. Although Julia is cautious, she is al so outgoing, because she has no fear of being caught. Winston is influenced to just trust her, even though he knows that at any minute, they could be caught. I don't think that Julia is old enough to realize the differences in life before the party and her life then, and that influences her reason for not caring about trying to change anything, she just doesn't like the government. I think that these two will help one another to eventually try and accomplish their goals.
Julia thinks more that the Party is just there and you can break the rules as long as you don't get caught, but Winston thinks that the Party is oppressing it's people and should be overthrown. I think that Orwell brought these two together to show the generation gap.
I think that shauna's comment about them being opposite in what they break is very interesting. Julia does seem to do big stuff and likes to rebel, and Winston doesn't want to be seen as a threat, but keeps a journal, more of a little thing.
But then again, I also wonder whether keeping a journal is littler than breaking the rule of sexual intercourse. Having a journal allows Winston to think and create his own thoughts; which might be more of a threat to the government.
Julia compares to Winston in a few ways. One is that they are both very rebellious, although they do a good job of hiding it and being secretive in their meetings. Another thing is that they both work in positions for the Party, yet they have doubts about the Party's rules, etc. Julia is also different from Winston because she is very spontaneous and seems to have a wild side. This could be because they differ so much in age.
The main difference i noticed between Julia and Winston is their degree of commitment to the rebellion/ hatred of the party. Julia seems to resent the level of control they use, like a teenager does to his/her parents, yet winston hates the party as a whole. Julia sees the party as an unmoving, constant thing yet winston knows it is not un-fallable.
I think one of the main ways that she is different from Winston is that she challenges the party in small things like drinking coffee and other petty matters. Winston tries as much as possible to challenge the core of the party by sexual encounters and larger matters that he would be more likely to be vaporized for.
I think that the generation gap creates a huge difference between the two. Julia acts like a teenager, as she tries to break the little rules, but never even thinks over overthrowing the authority figure. Winston has memories of what it was like before the revolution and longs for it badly. They both dislike the party, but they have different ways of showing it.
I think that Orwell brought these two characters together because, as we discovered last semester, an accomplice is needed to challenge the system. If they had not met each other, both would be continuing on in silent protest against the party and no actual rebelling would really take place.
I think they are similar because they both want to overthrow the government or at least do something about it. But they are different because Winston knows exactly what he wants and what he wants to do, but on the other hand Julia wants to do something but she isn't sure. Winston has the power and Julia doesn't have the power.
I think that Julia and Clarrise of F451 are the most similar in the books. They both represent the straightforwardness of the challenge.
I think that Julia was brought into the book to do the same thing that Clarrise did. To gve drive to the story and introduce a new perspective. She is different in that she is the teenager attitude and Winston is the more mature adult, and she is a bit more rational with her emotions. Winstons pissed off, and she is more concerned about herself and the present. This, I think is better.
Julia compares to him because they both want to "challenge the system." However, Julia just wants to challenge it in their own way and she doesnt care if the government is effected at all. Winston really wants to bring down the government and somehow effect the world. Their differing generations effect their outlooks because Winston was around when there was no big brother, but all Julia knows is the government. Winston knows there is a better life and Julia doesnt. That is why Winston wants to bring the government down.
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